[Champion] Malzahar - Page 3
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you can do some cool things with ad malz. i found that if u e an enemy your voidlings will attack constantly as long as you are within roughly autoattack range of the enemy. if you dont leave AA range your voidlings will stick to that enemy no matter what. so you can 'dive' turrets pre-lvl 6 by having your pets attack and then following the enemy as they retreat. i started 3-0 by doing this last night.
On April 12 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
I heard the biggest weakness of AD malz was that, once the enemy understands how AD malz plays, they just kill the minions, right?
Late game your minions have 1.1k health. If the enemy is focusing them during team fights they're losing the team fight.
AD Malzahar's weaknesses are his mana consumption, the propensity for his Voidlings to run around aimlessly if you don't have slows/CCs to lock down targets, and the lack of good AD caster itemization. He's fun but he's still suboptimal for those reasons.
going bot lane is just fun. i dont really cast any spells til lvl 5-6 when i get tear and hopefully blue. then you just push the shit out of your lane. if u e the enemy ad carry and a frenzied voidling gets off 3 or 4 hits they will lose half their life.
im thinking i might finish that build up with warmogs or at least change the armor yellow runes i have for hp/lvl. the lack of escape really is obnoxious, ad malz is fucking squishy. or maybe sell the bruta late game and get frozen heart and last whisper (not sure if this effects pets, anyone know?), or black cleaver.
also does anyone know how starks affects the voidlings? even if the life steal doesnt work, attack speed might be worth it in terms of increasing overall dps.
I'm pretty sure auras don't affect creep. I could be wrong tho.
one reason i chose to farm only early with ad malz is that i have no cdr and my spells cost a lot of mana. it wouldnt be possible really to have 2 voidlings out at that point, and with no ult you arent really a threat. so buying dblades is a short term benefit, during a period where you cant do anything anyway. tear provides mana in the midgame, and a nice chunk of ad in the late game. on just about every other bot lane ad i play i get dblades. but i dont think it makes sense for ad malz.
maybe if u dont spam like i do you dont need a slot for mana, but i dunno, thats how i like to do it. and also if i get bruta right after tear its not that late in the game... and it arrives right when you have a bit of extra mana to make use of the cdr and can from that point forward have 1-2 voidlings out at all times if you chose.
the build doesnt fall apart without blue. i dont get it at all some games. like one i just played had kass and he asked for blue before minions spawned so i didnt even mention it would be good for me (most people assume im trolling at champ select). not having blue just means a less aggressive overall approach. you have to pick your spots.
this is just what ive found in my limited games so far. im probably 7-2 in ranked bot lane, and ive lost a couple trying mid lane and top. i really prefer bot though. i wouldnt ever say its a powerhouse ad carry that can wreck people like vayne can, but it brings other things to the table. you really shine in small skirmishes and split push like a boss. and if you tread carefully in team fights or come in to clean up you can dish out a lot of damage very quickly.
being able to reliably push bot lane and take the tower whenever you want after about 12 minutes can really help in dictating the flow of the overall game also. i havent come across an ad carry that can outpush malz that early yet and i think ive played against most (all?) of them.
On April 13 2012 17:00 Ryuu314 wrote:
Honestly, I can't really make AD malz work consistently. He just runs into wayyy too much mana problems. Getting tear/manamune isn't really all that great either cause you really want that 2 dblade bruta core, followed by BTs asap and tear/manamune just delays that too much.
I'm pretty sure auras don't affect creep. I could be wrong tho.
i kind of danced around this question in my last past. specifically:
manamune turns malz's crippling mana shortage, into something you can work with easily. i have never bought a dblade on malz and i have never thought i wasnt doing enough damage. even just with runes, voidlings at lvl 3-5 will seriously lay the smack down (youre not going to instagib cait at lvl 3, but like i said, an e + 3 or 4 voidling hits will take half of an ad carry's life early game, just doing that one time is generally enough to make the other ad passively farm, because golly gee you took half my life with a minion pet and 1 spell). dblades are unnecessary, while imo something to help the mana issues is the first priority.
im not sure how much of my relative success is due to my opponents not having a clue wtf im doing. if they knew that its not actually that simple to get an e+3-4 voidling hits reliably, and that my spells are weak as shit they would probably be a bit more aggressive.
I tried a few starts in the jungle and it was cool because you can get teh voidlings to tank for you, I'm not sure what to start with though
Cloth5? can but I hate cloth 5 in new jungle and voids are tanking usually
Vamp? Kinda hazardous, doesnt buff voidlings
Longsword? voidlings get the ad and tank for you
Dorans blade? kinda same as longsword
regrowth? Philo might be handy as the main issue is running out of mana
Voidling background dancers OP. Expect hot fix.
W cast time is pretty much instant; Malz doesn't even turn if you cast it behind yourself.
Voidling proirity is now something like: Nether Grasp target>Malefic Visions target>Champion it was last attacking>Whatever you're attacking>Champions attacking you>Towers>Everything else.
Voidlings stick much more strongly; they don't derp the moment E runs out, and they will continue to attack the target they're on until they run out of leash range or you slap an E/R on something else.
Significantly less idle time, and they wake up the moment you attack something.
Only saw one indecisive "Which one do I attack, I GUESS NEITHER" moment.
They try to hide in bushes with you.
Overall, a few derp moments here and there, but a looooot more consistent. Time to bust out AD Malz again.
Runes: Magic Penetration marks, flat armor seals, flat MR glyphs (or scaling MR- I don't have flat, scaling works pretty well too), flat AP quints
Masteries: 21/9/0 (3 points in magic resist)
Skill order: QEEWQR, then R>Q>E>W
This is probably going to sound crazy, but forgo any early aggression. Resist the urge to spam malefic visions like crazy. Just last hit, use malefic visions if they realize what you're doing and adjust to this by pushing hard. The key is to get chalice and forgo catalyst/RoA, and grab a fast Rylai's instead. After playing a lot of Malzahar it sort of dawned on me what got me killed most frequently (aside from pushing with reckless abandon) was getting in range to use malefic vision during team fights, then getting caught and not being able to get away. Solution: don't rely upon malefic visions and get a fast Rylai's.
My reasoning is as follows: the range on call of the void is obscene, and you can hit their entire team from relative safety. Realistically hitting 2-3 people is not that hard (especially if they're lined up at dragon). The cooldown is also superior to malefic vision (until you get to level 5 malefic vision). And at level 5 it silences for a 3 seconds. Once you have Rylai's, malefic visions and null zone allow you to slow enemies and create distance, so you can be much more aggressive. It also seems to make it a lot safer to use nether grasp, since your opponents start freaking out when they get slowed by malefic visions. The slow also makes it much easier to land your full combo before using nether grasp.
The runes are mostly to help you to get to Rylai's without too much trouble (hard to win damage trades if you max call of the void first, though you have a good poke). Mana regen isn't a huge deal with chalice, and you can upgrade it to Grail for nearly full CDR with blue buff. Typical items are: boots/3 pots, chalice, sorc shoes, Rylai's, Deathcap, Grail, Will of the Ancients, Void Staff, then a situational item.
call of the void is pretty mana-intensive though, but i guess with blue buff + visions passive makes it less of a problem. I personally ignore nullzone until lvl 8, and go qeeqer and push mid hard for a sidelane gank or jungle invade at or shortly after lvl 6, or alternatively just killing mid with jungler (malz #1 jungle assist)
well this should not be a kat vs malz post. all I want to say is that yes his ult is situational and often hard to use well, but that does not make him weak by any means.
First of all his laneing is S class. I can't think of any mid laner who has such a solid laneing that works well against so many different champions. He has two completely different aggression styles in lane with his interesting E mechanic and his insane range, base damage and disables. I've been playing a ton of mid lately and Malz is kind of my 'Not sure what to pick'-champ, especially when I don't see their ap champion.
Malz is one of those mid champs who can come back hard even after his opponent has 2 kills from a lvl 1 fight. It's insane how you can dance around your opponent with silence and dots and still push the lane. The amoun of pressure he can apply without even being ahead is brutal, just because that silence and his ult protect him against all kinds of attacks.
Then his ganks are ok I guess. One good thing is that his ult can pretty much net a kill even in a turret dive, but his poke-style and the slowish nature of his base abilities are not the most amazing ganking tools. What you can do with malz is counterganking very well. If you are pushing and their jungler is tired of trying to catch you while his ap is running from voidlings, dots and your minions, then you can follow up ganks from both sides, which he does well, because malz is at his best if he can adapt his position to a started fight.
Lategame he harder to play than some of the other ap carries. Not assassin-type hard, but you don't do mistakes with your positioning or you are useless. The constant poking is almost a must. His ult can do wonders or nothing.
In the end I think this champ is rock solid. and underplayed.
On December 17 2012 10:14 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2012 10:01 ManyCookies wrote:
So apparently Black Cleaver procs off Voidling damage now. Neat, though a shame about the nerfs.
AD Malz always been awesome, man. Voidlings tear through everything that he's attacking, including towers or dragon/nashor.
Actually if they scale off his AD when they spawn, the Nashor debuff that halves the target's AD may not even do that much to his damage to it.
On December 17 2012 10:28 ManyCookies wrote:
I know dude, I was part of that initial discussion. Just noting that Black Cleaver is now an actual item I'd like to build on him (builds from brutalizer and has completely relevant stats).
I wonder which parts of Hunter's Machete Voidlings benefit from / how much micro you'd need with the new jungle monster target-selection to keep voidlings alive.
It's pretty similar to S2, maybe a bit better. I've been doing an AD carry Page, 9/0/21 masteries for CDR and starting Machete/5. Machete increases voidling damage, though they don't apply the on-hit. Very safe, pretty fast initial clear. With micro and decent help on blue, you can do something like a ~3:05 clear with 3 pots left, though the micro is a bit unforgiving for that time (cut 30 seconds and two pots if your Voidling dies at Red). Spirit Stone's great on him (mana regen+faster clear), Tear is cheaper and has a better upgrade, and Brutalizer now has a relevant upgrade. Other than that, pretty much AD Malz.
Also, that annoying glitch that ate spell charges after a voidling spawned (i.e at 3 stacks, spam 3 spells, have 0 stacks) has been fixed. Yaaay!