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On July 15 2018 10:03 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2018 09:00 nafta wrote: Also this whole meme of "ads were the strongest role" is just so funny. I must be playing a different game cuz that has never been a thing. ADs are ONLY good if you pick a team that peels and builds items to give you damage. Otherwise most other champs are significantly easier to be useful with. You mean like.... How the game was played for roughly 9 years? I want some of your games if this is the main way your league of legends games have been going these last 9 years.
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On July 16 2018 11:09 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2018 10:03 Jek wrote:On July 15 2018 09:00 nafta wrote: Also this whole meme of "ads were the strongest role" is just so funny. I must be playing a different game cuz that has never been a thing. ADs are ONLY good if you pick a team that peels and builds items to give you damage. Otherwise most other champs are significantly easier to be useful with. You mean like.... How the game was played for roughly 9 years? I want some of your games if this is the main way your league of legends games have been going these last 9 years. I dont know about you but in most of my games the ADC have had at least 25% of their team members playing specifically picked champions to help and enable them since before minions have even spawned. They have usually also been the primary focus to kill, protect and peel for.
ADCs have had VIP treatment since people realized having them in botlane was pretty smart (tm). The funnel strategy have essentially existed since day 1 it was just in botlane rather than mid and then as in now the champion being funneled is usually an ADC.
The only period they were not always expected to be a hard carry on the team was during the lethality period and now.
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ADC are the most important champion in the game besides this meta, but that doesn't mean carrying with them was easy. You're squishy and have a big target on your head. Every season, Riot introduced more champions and mechanics in the game that allow you to reach the ADC and kill them in 100 different ways, to the point where the only way an ADC is going to live in competitive is if he positions well AND he has a supportive team who do the right thing. Even Uzi couldn't overcome that barrier.
I've come to the general conclusion in soloQ that having an OK ADC with a great support is far more desirable than a great ADC with an OK support, because the support makes plays, the ADC is just there to deal damage. Only way to have a real impact as ADC is to be significantly better than your opponent. And if you misposition as an ADC you lose entire games because their support/jungler/top/mid makes 'big' plays.
The funnel strategy have essentially existed since day 1 it was just in botlane rather than mid and then as in now the champion being funneled is usually an ADC.
ADC farming is not the same as a funnel strat, otherwise we'd be calling Syndra with 11 cs/min a funnel strat as well. ADC get farm priority after laning phase, funneling occurs during laning phase itself primarily. And ADC never came to fights 2-5 levels over their opponents, when you're so ahead you can literally just A-move as Yi or outDPS carries with E as Karthus. Allocating farm is not funneling.
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On July 16 2018 18:15 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2018 11:09 Fildun wrote:On July 15 2018 10:03 Jek wrote:On July 15 2018 09:00 nafta wrote: Also this whole meme of "ads were the strongest role" is just so funny. I must be playing a different game cuz that has never been a thing. ADs are ONLY good if you pick a team that peels and builds items to give you damage. Otherwise most other champs are significantly easier to be useful with. You mean like.... How the game was played for roughly 9 years? I want some of your games if this is the main way your league of legends games have been going these last 9 years. I dont know about you but in most of my games the ADC have had at least 25% of their team members playing specifically picked champions to help and enable them since before minions have even spawned. They have usually also been the primary focus to kill, protect and peel for. ADCs have had VIP treatment since people realized having them in botlane was pretty smart (tm). The funnel strategy have essentially existed since day 1 it was just in botlane rather than mid and then as in now the champion being funneled is usually an ADC. The only period they were not always expected to be a hard carry on the team was during the lethality period and now. The reason ADCs got "VIP" treatment was due to destroying 2v2 with a support and being good at killing towers in an era before herald and the nash that buffs minions. The new runes giving everyone tons of damage and the base stats nerf just makes them so weak. This is even ignoring the whole crit items being dogshit.
Just think back to how much damage your flair did last season to now.
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I wouldn't say the VIP treatment is because of them being good at killing towers or 2v2. The VIP treatment came from the way scaling works in League. A single ranged carry going full damage was order of magnitudes stronger than a ranged carry going mixed. Ranged full damage carries also out damage any other kind of carry in the game. This causes an arms race of trying to get your ranged carry to peak power faster than the opponent because it nets you the biggest advantage. Now a full damage carry is obviously going to be susceptible to the enemy which pushes them out of solo lanes and instead into protected position. This creates an solution of just putting the carry in a bot lane with support.
Now you aren't incentivized to run melee carries and your opponent has a ranged carry duo in bot lane, what do you stick against that? A throw away initiator that can clear waves and doesn't need gold! That's how you get the lane swap meta. The funnel composition we see these days is really just the core of the lane swap idea make even more hyper focused by sacrificing the jungle movement for an even more accelerated carry.
What Riot is doing with ADC isn't inherently wrong, the issue is more timing of the changes than anything else. They have spent years creating heroes with very minute differences in kit all to feed a hyper specialized role that shouldn't necessarily be mandatory. They normalized power curves across heroes creating this "race to the bottom" and removing individuality. Would ADC be in this poor position if heroes had less homogenized curves? It's tough to say. I think what they trying has some merit and definitely speaks to better design than previously but they doing it at a terrible time and should really be iterating more. I'd love to see the day where teams can pick early, mid, late or hyper late scaling compositions and all have their merits. Let's get to those Anti-mage vs Spectre slugfests or Alchemist craziness!
edit: Hell one of their newest heroes has designers essentially saying "here's a better vayne!". That's just real shoddy work man.
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On July 17 2018 07:00 Numy wrote: I wouldn't say the VIP treatment is because of them being good at killing towers or 2v2. The VIP treatment came from the way scaling works in League. A single ranged carry going full damage was order of magnitudes stronger than a ranged carry going mixed. Ranged full damage carries also out damage any other kind of carry in the game. This causes an arms race of trying to get your ranged carry to peak power faster than the opponent because it nets you the biggest advantage. Now a full damage carry is obviously going to be susceptible to the enemy which pushes them out of solo lanes and instead into protected position. This creates an solution of just putting the carry in a bot lane with support.
Now you aren't incentivized to run melee carries and your opponent has a ranged carry duo in bot lane, what do you stick against that? A throw away initiator that can clear waves and doesn't need gold! That's how you get the lane swap meta. The funnel composition we see these days is really just the core of the lane swap idea make even more hyper focused by sacrificing the jungle movement for an even more accelerated carry.
What Riot is doing with ADC isn't inherently wrong, the issue is more timing of the changes than anything else. They have spent years creating heroes with very minute differences in kit all to feed a hyper specialized role that shouldn't necessarily be mandatory. They normalized power curves across heroes creating this "race to the bottom" and removing individuality. Would ADC be in this poor position if heroes had less homogenized curves? It's tough to say. I think what they trying has some merit and definitely speaks to better design than previously but they doing it at a terrible time and should really be iterating more. I'd love to see the day where teams can pick early, mid, late or hyper late scaling compositions and all have their merits. Let's get to those Anti-mage vs Spectre slugfests or Alchemist craziness!
edit: Hell one of their newest heroes has designers essentially saying "here's a better vayne!". That's just real shoddy work man. I can't say that in my experience ADCs are the highest damage output. Unless we are talking about kog/lulu or twitch when enemy has shit engage mages are generally better since they don't need to live long.
I was under the impression people are talking about soloq not pro games when it comes to balance up until you mentioned lane swaps. In pro games when people actually try to pick comps and there are games where not everyone is retarded things work very differently.
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NA is down. Games wont start
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akali splash art is gorgeous
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Wow I am so excited for the new Akali. She's always been my favorite champ. I am really digging the new skill set and it blends together so well.
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I’ll be excited to see how it plays out
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Akali's kit looks way too good to me, at least for solo q. Do they want her to retain the identity of a pubstomp champion?
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This champion was reworked by CertainlyT, right? She certainly looks like it.
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I think they're going the wrong direction with hitting the Jungle items for hurt funneling. They need to go after support items.
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Everyone knows that including Riot but they are afraid of decreasing support popularity
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From what I read they just realized they messed up super hard doing such drastic changes mid season and just trying a small temp fix that is rather inelegant but shouldn't cause any random cascade effect. Think it's fine for now as long as they do go after the real issues later instead of focusing down this path.
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This patch is going to be a fiesta. ADC getting straight up buffed, wonder if they're going to throw everyone else out of bot lane again.
Fizz doesn't need more damage, this is not the approach to make him viable without making him OP.
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To make ADCs happy they should just buff Vayne and Lucian to be really good. ADC players all love to play Vayne and Lucian.
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The Akali rework looks okay except for the ult, it's needlessly complicated.
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