Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Messing around with her, I think shes kind of just an abusive top laner.... Certainly not bottom thats scary / awful. I dont think she can farm reliably enough to jungle. Mid she can't trade reliably / wave clear.
Give her items and I think she does the most damage in the game though. Just... not sure how she gets there.
Keys are kind of like daily login rewards now. Just make sure you always log in a day and you'll eventually get some keys. I still have a bunch of chests as well since key rate is a lot slower than chest rate if you aren't a 1 trick. Did get an email survey about the key situation so they may be looking into it.
On March 08 2018 12:31 iCanada wrote: KaiSa seems like an interesting champ.
Messing around with her, I think shes kind of just an abusive top laner.... Certainly not bottom thats scary / awful. I dont think she can farm reliably enough to jungle. Mid she can't trade reliably / wave clear.
Give her items and I think she does the most damage in the game though. Just... not sure how she gets there.
Apparently I am a Galio 1 trick after next patch. Huh.
I tried jungle with her, her clear is ok. I was able to do red wolves blue without using a pot and being like half health. The only thing I don't like about her jungle is that she's kind of weak until she gets that upgrade on her skill and lack of cc sucks. She doesn't have the burst damage or cc most junglers have so its kind of meh. W is hard to hit too so you can't even ult onto laners reliably. Her passive is really strong though.
On March 08 2018 12:31 iCanada wrote: KaiSa seems like an interesting champ.
Messing around with her, I think shes kind of just an abusive top laner.... Certainly not bottom thats scary / awful. I dont think she can farm reliably enough to jungle. Mid she can't trade reliably / wave clear.
Give her items and I think she does the most damage in the game though. Just... not sure how she gets there.
Apparently I am a Galio 1 trick after next patch. Huh.
I tried jungle with her, her clear is ok. I was able to do red wolves blue without using a pot and being like half health. The only thing I don't like about her jungle is that she's kind of weak until she gets that upgrade on her skill and lack of cc sucks. She doesn't have the burst damage or cc most junglers have so its kind of meh. W is hard to hit too so you can't even ult onto laners reliably. Her passive is really strong though.
Yeah but aside from metroid aesthetics... why would you pick her jungle over kindred? Kindred does all the same things just better... ie full hp clear, burst and CC, team wide utility, come back / scaling mechanics less reliant on gold, better mobility (this is the real big one for me, got to not get unequivocally pummeled by ww/jax/eve)...
Idk ill have to test her in some real games, because I like the concept. But Idk I'm doubtful.
Kai'Sa not being able to evolve Q with Gunblade+Rageblade, she's 8 AD short at level 18, piss me off. Riot finally had the chance to finally make a non-Kayle that could utilize Nashtor's Tooth and they blew it....
Hurricane is 100% going to be core on her and I have no idea why Riot listed Shiv instead. The bolts work with her E reset. Could see Rageblade too since it works with her passive and all her stuff got AP ratios and E work with the double proc too. Wouldn't be suprised if she just ends up with the Varus/Kog build. Maybe Essence reaver 3rd for the CDR so she can have perma E uptime.
So this patch is apparently 10 GB for me, I'm going to assume that's not normal.
How do people have so many chests, I have like 1 chest and 40 key fragments. I get fragments every single day, Riot says from honor but it's probably just a daily reward. Is it because I pretty much only play ADC?
They announced that. They are redoing the whole sound engine behind the game. So they said it would be much larger than usual. 10GB does seem high though.,,
On March 08 2018 12:31 iCanada wrote: KaiSa seems like an interesting champ.
Messing around with her, I think shes kind of just an abusive top laner.... Certainly not bottom thats scary / awful. I dont think she can farm reliably enough to jungle. Mid she can't trade reliably / wave clear.
Give her items and I think she does the most damage in the game though. Just... not sure how she gets there.
Apparently I am a Galio 1 trick after next patch. Huh.
I found her jungle pretty solid tbh
You definitely need laners with CC and I am really not confident in how to build her. I went rageblade/warrior which feels bad out of jungle but gets her Q upgrade. Wits end 3rd for her invis on E
Went Gunblade after just to get her W also but that didnt feel great. Obviously this was a longer game
In terms of raw damage; I think best build is Rageblade > Runaans > IE. Pricy as hell from jungle, but with these three items you are the strongest 3 item champ in the game and only get stronger regardless what you build.
Might make sense in non snowball game from jungle to build like skirmisher> zerkers > recurve > Blackcleaver > wits. Cheaper and tankier, gives you some tankiness and utility, gets you fast stealth. You instant stack BC with Q which is nice then slowly transition to the 3 hyper carry build items. Idk. Got to not die before you get your 3 items worth 11k gold.
I'm also not sure you want to actually build jungle item past skirmisher. Idk. If you can get Rageblade by 15 to 17 minutes reliably by rushing it that's the way to go and I think she's probably just a jungler.
On March 09 2018 00:26 Jek wrote: Kai'Sa not being able to evolve Q with Gunblade+Rageblade, she's 8 AD short at level 18, piss me off. Riot finally had the chance to finally make a non-Kayle that could utilize Nashtor's Tooth and they blew it....
Hurricane is 100% going to be core on her and I have no idea why Riot listed Shiv instead. The bolts work with her E reset. Could see Rageblade too since it works with her passive and all her stuff got AP ratios and E work with the double proc too. Wouldn't be suprised if she just ends up with the Varus/Kog build. Maybe Essence reaver 3rd for the CDR so she can have perma E uptime.
On March 09 2018 00:26 Jek wrote: Kai'Sa not being able to evolve Q with Gunblade+Rageblade, she's 8 AD short at level 18, piss me off. Riot finally had the chance to finally make a non-Kayle that could utilize Nashtor's Tooth and they blew it....
Hurricane is 100% going to be core on her and I have no idea why Riot listed Shiv instead. The bolts work with her E reset. Could see Rageblade too since it works with her passive and all her stuff got AP ratios and E work with the double proc too. Wouldn't be suprised if she just ends up with the Varus/Kog build. Maybe Essence reaver 3rd for the CDR so she can have perma E uptime.
Good thing there's 3 other item slots.
Yes but you need to buy boots and to make Nashtor's really worth it you want your last two items to have AP. That being said I haven't done any math to see if a Deathcap would add more damage than an evolved Q on a Nashtor's build.
Be deleted from the game. As soon as she was shown people were talking about how her kit was just old Nid which we knew was a massive issue. Yet they released that kit and now balance team decided to just gut out of the game. Congratz to the champ design team. You guys are real smart cookies.
On March 08 2018 12:31 iCanada wrote: KaiSa seems like an interesting champ.
Messing around with her, I think shes kind of just an abusive top laner.... Certainly not bottom thats scary / awful. I dont think she can farm reliably enough to jungle. Mid she can't trade reliably / wave clear.
Give her items and I think she does the most damage in the game though. Just... not sure how she gets there.
Apparently I am a Galio 1 trick after next patch. Huh.
I tried jungle with her, her clear is ok. I was able to do red wolves blue without using a pot and being like half health. The only thing I don't like about her jungle is that she's kind of weak until she gets that upgrade on her skill and lack of cc sucks. She doesn't have the burst damage or cc most junglers have so its kind of meh. W is hard to hit too so you can't even ult onto laners reliably. Her passive is really strong though.
Yeah but aside from metroid aesthetics... why would you pick her jungle over kindred? Kindred does all the same things just better... ie full hp clear, burst and CC, team wide utility, come back / scaling mechanics less reliant on gold, better mobility (this is the real big one for me, got to not get unequivocally pummeled by ww/jax/eve)...
Idk ill have to test her in some real games, because I like the concept. But Idk I'm doubtful.
Sorry I didn't mean 'the only thing' I meant 'the thing'. She's not a good jungle really. Seemed mediocre to me.
On March 09 2018 01:34 DarkCore wrote: So this patch is apparently 10 GB for me, I'm going to assume that's not normal.
How do people have so many chests, I have like 1 chest and 40 key fragments. I get fragments every single day, Riot says from honor but it's probably just a daily reward. Is it because I pretty much only play ADC?
Yup you just don't play enough champions. I've been at 20+ chests for ages. I get like 1-2 keys every 2-3 log-ins.
Honestly the new hero feels pretty bad to me. Even if her number are good there's just nothing about her that looks interesting or cool. The only cool part about her is she's cutie in a bodysuit with some metroid style costumes. Pretty uninspiring design otherwise.
Yeah the split is pretty good. Her passive does big dps with AP on hit and with the execute. She's got a pretty 50/50 split sans items and you can tailor it however.
On March 09 2018 00:26 Jek wrote: Kai'Sa not being able to evolve Q with Gunblade+Rageblade, she's 8 AD short at level 18, piss me off. Riot finally had the chance to finally make a non-Kayle that could utilize Nashtor's Tooth and they blew it....
Hurricane is 100% going to be core on her and I have no idea why Riot listed Shiv instead. The bolts work with her E reset. Could see Rageblade too since it works with her passive and all her stuff got AP ratios and E work with the double proc too. Wouldn't be suprised if she just ends up with the Varus/Kog build. Maybe Essence reaver 3rd for the CDR so she can have perma E uptime.
"Hotfix buff to Kai'Sa that just went live:
Base AD 62.46->65 Q Mana Cost 55->45 Q Cooldown 10-6->8-6"
Whelp now she's 6AD short. Surely they did that on purpose. Would have been a good question for the AMA they did on reddit.
On March 09 2018 04:48 Numy wrote: Be deleted from the game. As soon as she was shown people were talking about how her kit was just old Nid which we knew was a massive issue. Yet they released that kit and now balance team decided to just gut out of the game. Congratz to the champ design team. You guys are real smart cookies.
yeah her kit is now a bunch of random shit that doesnt go together at all
she is still a poke monster later on in the game but her W and passive might as well not exist aside from picking up summs
On March 09 2018 04:48 Numy wrote: Be deleted from the game. As soon as she was shown people were talking about how her kit was just old Nid which we knew was a massive issue. Yet they released that kit and now balance team decided to just gut out of the game. Congratz to the champ design team. You guys are real smart cookies.
yeah her kit is now a bunch of random shit that doesnt go together at all
she is still a poke monster later on in the game but her W and passive might as well not exist aside from picking up summs
Pretty much. She lacks an identity and a theme. It's weird because for the most part Riot really pushes a fantasy to tie to champions (think Sion, Illaoi, Rek'sai, Kindred, Taric etc.). But now Zoe and Swain have both come out in a short space of time and both of them lack an identity.
On March 09 2018 04:48 Numy wrote: Be deleted from the game. As soon as she was shown people were talking about how her kit was just old Nid which we knew was a massive issue. Yet they released that kit and now balance team decided to just gut out of the game. Congratz to the champ design team. You guys are real smart cookies.
yeah her kit is now a bunch of random shit that doesnt go together at all
she is still a poke monster later on in the game but her W and passive might as well not exist aside from picking up summs
Pretty much. She lacks an identity and a theme. It's weird because for the most part Riot really pushes a fantasy to tie to champions (think Sion, Illaoi, Rek'sai, Kindred, Taric etc.). But now Zoe and Swain have both come out in a short space of time and both of them lack an identity.
I cant really talk for Swain, I rarely see Swain, I have never played Swain, but Zoe had an identity. Its just that that identity was one that Riot's balance team deemed "toxic" years ago. Given that uber-poker is an illegal identity, her hope is for a W rework where it ends up being a charged flash, no other options aside from maybe exhaust and ghost (those are all similar enough that the RNG wont ruin everything, event though the RNG is a big problem). If you do that you can make her a riff on a ranged Kassadin by buffing the passive.
On March 09 2018 04:48 Numy wrote: Be deleted from the game. As soon as she was shown people were talking about how her kit was just old Nid which we knew was a massive issue. Yet they released that kit and now balance team decided to just gut out of the game. Congratz to the champ design team. You guys are real smart cookies.
yeah her kit is now a bunch of random shit that doesnt go together at all
she is still a poke monster later on in the game but her W and passive might as well not exist aside from picking up summs
Pretty much. She lacks an identity and a theme. It's weird because for the most part Riot really pushes a fantasy to tie to champions (think Sion, Illaoi, Rek'sai, Kindred, Taric etc.). But now Zoe and Swain have both come out in a short space of time and both of them lack an identity.
The biggest thing that confused me about her is that she has a 5 hit passive with limited mobility while being super short ranged. What on earth is that design meant to be?
On March 09 2018 04:48 Numy wrote: Be deleted from the game. As soon as she was shown people were talking about how her kit was just old Nid which we knew was a massive issue. Yet they released that kit and now balance team decided to just gut out of the game. Congratz to the champ design team. You guys are real smart cookies.
yeah her kit is now a bunch of random shit that doesnt go together at all
she is still a poke monster later on in the game but her W and passive might as well not exist aside from picking up summs
Pretty much. She lacks an identity and a theme. It's weird because for the most part Riot really pushes a fantasy to tie to champions (think Sion, Illaoi, Rek'sai, Kindred, Taric etc.). But now Zoe and Swain have both come out in a short space of time and both of them lack an identity.
The biggest thing that confused me about her is that she has a 5 hit passive with limited mobility while being super short ranged. What on earth is that design meant to be?
To me, its fairly obvious. Q, on its own, was supposed to be mild waveclear and poke.
E is supposed to be the spell you fish with, at which point you R-Auto for massive burst.
W is supposed to be a unique flair.
In other words, she was supposed to be a champ that fishes with E, and can force out really bad players with just Q, but really is supposed to try and all in nearly all the time with EQQRAuto. W is supposed to be generally a doubling down on this because you should (in the designer's minds) almost always use it to chase with flash, or flash out after overestimating your chances. TP and other uses did not cross their minds.
On March 09 2018 04:48 Numy wrote: Be deleted from the game. As soon as she was shown people were talking about how her kit was just old Nid which we knew was a massive issue. Yet they released that kit and now balance team decided to just gut out of the game. Congratz to the champ design team. You guys are real smart cookies.
yeah her kit is now a bunch of random shit that doesnt go together at all
she is still a poke monster later on in the game but her W and passive might as well not exist aside from picking up summs
Pretty much. She lacks an identity and a theme. It's weird because for the most part Riot really pushes a fantasy to tie to champions (think Sion, Illaoi, Rek'sai, Kindred, Taric etc.). But now Zoe and Swain have both come out in a short space of time and both of them lack an identity.
I just dont get how they go through testing these champions and dont realize the general public is going to bitch about getting 1 shot from unwarded areas. Who is testing these champions pre release? Monkeys?
On a side note I really like jungle Kai'sa. Healthy clear and strong damage so you can duel or at least push out the other jungle if they invade. Your laners obviously need CC unless you have red buff, you have strong sticking power with E.
I get the impression it was classic big corporate. Departments don't really talk to each other. People tend to create very insular ideas of the stuff they work on so they land up thinking it's the best thing ever without ever thinking about the downsides. Then it gets put out only to be met with terrible reception but it's no longer the departments problem but the live balance team to clean up their mess.
You see this kind of shit all the time with big corporations. The board room comes up with some idea that must be totally awesome. Then it gets released and instantly people see how bad it is. So why couldn't the board room? Group think too strong really. In this instance Riot already had a skin in production thinking she'd be super popular. When last did they product a skin this quickly after hero release? It's crazy.
I don’t personally like this. A lot of champs with weak early lanes were only really able to get to better than 50% winrate with the additional gold to make up for the weak lane. In theory riot could go and buff all those champs to make up for it, but they won’t actually do it.
I don’t personally like this. A lot of champs with weak early lanes were only really able to get to better than 50% winrate with the additional gold to make up for the weak lane. In theory riot could go and buff all those champs to make up for it, but they won’t actually do it.
Do anyone actually want top Vlad to have a decent laning and the ability to spam wards for himself when he enters perma push mode?
I get the impression it was classic big corporate. Departments don't really talk to each other.
See, I would agree with that if not for the fact that Riot isn't exactly a huge company (2500 employees, of which I'm pretty sure less than 100 are responsible for game development), and all the departments that work on actual game content are likely to be in the same place. Also, Riot has been developing this game for years now, if they saw lack of communication as the reason for failed champion releases, they'd have done something about it. But if it's true, then it implies a major lack of proper management in the department, because champion design is all about communication between staff to make sure something like Zoe, which is god damn old Nidalee in a Pixie costume, doesn't get released.
My own theory is that it's because Riot's designers are having trouble finding new and meaningful ways to create champions. Pretty much every basic game mechanic has 20 different iterations across the champion pool, coming up with new stuff is hard. And new champions are, despite slow release scheduling and many not becoming meta, one of the driving forces keeping this game alive. Take it out, and the seasonal meta changes will drastically change and the game may become stale very fast for casual players.
Jhin and Olaf buffs are big. I think it was Kev1in who said on stream that he's pretty much the best duelist in the top lane for a large portion of the game, and he's a massive lane bully when ahead. If I did the calculations right, lv 3 ult will break even with old ult at 180 AD, which is easy to achieve.
I don't think Kaisa's kit is boring. Yeah, she's far from being flashy, but not all champs have to be as complicated as Illaoi/Ivern/Ekko/Kalista/Rakan. Her theme or "fantasy" is being fast and precise like a laser blaster. A bit like Lucian but with more focus on hitting targets and less on dashing through dangers.
I get the impression it was classic big corporate. Departments don't really talk to each other.
My own theory is that it's because Riot's designers are having trouble finding new and meaningful ways to create champions. Pretty much every basic game mechanic has 20 different iterations across the champion pool, coming up with new stuff is hard. And new champions are, despite slow release scheduling and many not becoming meta, one of the driving forces keeping this game alive. .
This problem is exasperated by their growing list of toxic/unfun gameplay of which auras are included for a reason I will never understand. Auras can be a way to “win a draft “ or avoid the lux/zerath/Ziggs problem but for whatever reason Riot nixed that shit after 2 weeks of taric jarvan in season 3 (but Xayah,Rakan holding 2nd pick hostage is totally ok xD)
I get the impression it was classic big corporate. Departments don't really talk to each other.
My own theory is that it's because Riot's designers are having trouble finding new and meaningful ways to create champions. Pretty much every basic game mechanic has 20 different iterations across the champion pool, coming up with new stuff is hard. And new champions are, despite slow release scheduling and many not becoming meta, one of the driving forces keeping this game alive. .
This problem is exasperated by their growing list of toxic/unfun gameplay of which auras are included for a reason I will never understand. Auras can be a way to “win a draft “ or avoid the lux/zerath/Ziggs problem but for whatever reason Riot nixed that shit after 2 weeks of taric jarvan in season 3 (but Xayah,Rakan holding 2nd pick hostage is totally ok xD)
They removed auras because it wasn't visible just hard big of an impact they had, not because they were toxic/unfun. C L A R I T Y
The change to Olaf's ult is really pretty darn sick.
On March 09 2018 04:48 Numy wrote: Be deleted from the game. As soon as she was shown people were talking about how her kit was just old Nid which we knew was a massive issue. Yet they released that kit and now balance team decided to just gut out of the game. Congratz to the champ design team. You guys are real smart cookies.
yeah her kit is now a bunch of random shit that doesnt go together at all
she is still a poke monster later on in the game but her W and passive might as well not exist aside from picking up summs
Pretty much. She lacks an identity and a theme. It's weird because for the most part Riot really pushes a fantasy to tie to champions (think Sion, Illaoi, Rek'sai, Kindred, Taric etc.). But now Zoe and Swain have both come out in a short space of time and both of them lack an identity.
I'm not sure where you're coming from. I guess mechanically speaking Zoe's kit is pretty crazy, but otherwise she's got a fine identity. Moreover, though I miss the monstrous bird man, New Swain has a much more focused aesthetic and personality than Old Swain. New's kit also works fine for a demon-magic dude even if it's almost completely different from old Swain, and New's skills all chain together in a satisfying way. People have all sorts of reasons to not like Swain or Zoe but I just don't get this identity complaint.
Yeah, Swain was bird master, not demon lord. All the red blood effects make him look like Vlad.
Zoe has a unique identity from a champ design perspective, but her abilities are not exactly brand new, besides her ult. I really think she fits a support design better, I'm still baffled Rito was willing to release another long range single ability nuker.
Swain's stuff looks like they tried to make it look cool
Zoe is impossible to balance with all the E pop damage and super long range Q that does more the further it travels
Her W and passive make her laning phase strong on top of her ridiculous poke. Close range, far range Zoe doesnt care. If that E lands you fucked unless you have a movement spell and even then you sometimes just cause yourself to make more damage since she can follow with R
I've had the pleasure of experiencing Eve in a few games this patch, and she seems stronger than previously. She snowballs out of control when ahead, blows up anything that isn't a full MR tank. My guess is it's a combination of AP itemization and the vision changes, less vision means Eve is more difficult to pinpoint. Very frustrating to play against in soloQ where no one coordinates warding enemy jungle deep.
On March 09 2018 22:39 Numy wrote: I get the impression it was classic big corporate. Departments don't really talk to each other. People tend to create very insular ideas of the stuff they work on so they land up thinking it's the best thing ever without ever thinking about the downsides. Then it gets put out only to be met with terrible reception but it's no longer the departments problem but the live balance team to clean up their mess.
You see this kind of shit all the time with big corporations. The board room comes up with some idea that must be totally awesome. Then it gets released and instantly people see how bad it is. So why couldn't the board room? Group think too strong really. In this instance Riot already had a skin in production thinking she'd be super popular. When last did they product a skin this quickly after hero release? It's crazy.
The real issue is that Riot really wants to make a trickster champion, but can't figure out how to do it. Think of LeBlanc, Shaco, and Zoe - all three of them are supposed to be Deceiver Trickster champions, but all of them instead end up being champions that either one-shot you or are useless.
On March 09 2018 22:39 Numy wrote: I get the impression it was classic big corporate. Departments don't really talk to each other. People tend to create very insular ideas of the stuff they work on so they land up thinking it's the best thing ever without ever thinking about the downsides. Then it gets put out only to be met with terrible reception but it's no longer the departments problem but the live balance team to clean up their mess.
You see this kind of shit all the time with big corporations. The board room comes up with some idea that must be totally awesome. Then it gets released and instantly people see how bad it is. So why couldn't the board room? Group think too strong really. In this instance Riot already had a skin in production thinking she'd be super popular. When last did they product a skin this quickly after hero release? It's crazy.
The real issue is that Riot really wants to make a trickster champion, but can't figure out how to do it. Think of LeBlanc, Shaco, and Zoe - all three of them are supposed to be Deceiver Trickster champions, but all of them instead end up being champions that either one-shot you or are useless.
On March 09 2018 22:39 Numy wrote: I get the impression it was classic big corporate. Departments don't really talk to each other. People tend to create very insular ideas of the stuff they work on so they land up thinking it's the best thing ever without ever thinking about the downsides. Then it gets put out only to be met with terrible reception but it's no longer the departments problem but the live balance team to clean up their mess.
You see this kind of shit all the time with big corporations. The board room comes up with some idea that must be totally awesome. Then it gets released and instantly people see how bad it is. So why couldn't the board room? Group think too strong really. In this instance Riot already had a skin in production thinking she'd be super popular. When last did they product a skin this quickly after hero release? It's crazy.
The real issue is that Riot really wants to make a trickster champion, but can't figure out how to do it. Think of LeBlanc, Shaco, and Zoe - all three of them are supposed to be Deceiver Trickster champions, but all of them instead end up being champions that either one-shot you or are useless.
That is partially the issue of carry champions in league being pretty squishy, so any sort of assassination champion is going to be feast/famine. If carries scaled more defensively like Vlad, assassins would be less feast/famine because they would be feasting on supports, which it is less devastating to lose in a quick pickoff or early in a teamfight.
Now, if you aren't committed to the assassin-deceiver you could so something tricky like a Zed-Vayne-Jax hybrid that has tankiness and temporary invisibility on his ult, but also is intended to swap between multiple shadows many times per fight to get off lots of autos. Probably would be too hard to pull off in the engine, but that's how you could do it.
After having spammed Kai'Sa games the entire weekend with friends, both as/against/with her. I'm starting to like the champ, mostly because I dont know if she's good or bad or what role you play her or what the hell you're supposed to build on her.
The thing about tricksters is that while Riot usually shoves them into a slippery bursty assassin role you could really design them to be anywhere. Tahm Kench basically makes his own ADC disappear after all, so the range of skills open to tricksters is far wider than Riot has explored. If anything tricksters are natural for more supporting roles because it lets you put more power in cool abilities that break rules while not giving them 1-shot or carry potential.
A support or supportish trickster would be interesting. You could clone teammates or hide them. I guess Ivern does it a little with his brush creation.
I was watching a bit of dota last weekend. They had some weird flying fairy thing support that seemed tricky. The idea in league would be pretty sweet.
On March 14 2018 01:59 iCanada wrote: Shaco is in a pretty healthy spot right now.
Disagree. Shaco is pretty much only good if a 1-trick plays him. In general, I think camo and true stealth changes were really a failure. Shaclone actually said on twitter that Shaco was reassigned to a new Rioter and that he's shared heaps of ways to help Shaco find an identity where he's not insta-nerfed as soon as he sees above average play. According to him, the last guy assigned to Shaco was quote: "a silver adc main who absolutely resented shaco" haha
Honestly we should just have 3 tanks, a sustained dmg mage and an ADC every game on both sides. You may not like it, but that is what peak League of Legends looks like.
On March 14 2018 04:02 Numy wrote: I was watching a bit of dota last weekend. They had some weird flying fairy thing support that seemed tricky. The idea in league would be pretty sweet.
not sure which hero youre referring to but maybe puck? puck is an extremely slippery hero by dota's standards and one of the heroes i wish we could have in lol. only problem is phase shift (his e) would be completely broken in lol. everything else about him we could bring over no problems
On March 14 2018 08:44 Fildun wrote: Honestly we should just have 3 tanks, a sustained dmg mage and an ADC every game on both sides. You may not like it, but that is what peak League of Legends looks like.
I dunno, I could be convinced otherwise but enforcing a meta like that for more than two years sounds very dull and boring. That said I already find (watching) league to be dull and boring, so maybe I'm not the best judge? I used to like watching it a lot though.
On March 14 2018 08:44 Fildun wrote: Honestly we should just have 3 tanks, a sustained dmg mage and an ADC every game on both sides. You may not like it, but that is what peak League of Legends looks like.
On March 14 2018 08:44 Fildun wrote: Honestly we should just have 3 tanks, a sustained dmg mage and an ADC every game on both sides. You may not like it, but that is what peak League of Legends looks like.
I dunno, I could be convinced otherwise but enforcing a meta like that for more than two years sounds very dull and boring. That said I already find (watching) league to be dull and boring, so maybe I'm not the best judge? I used to like watching it a lot though.
That's a meme (peak performance thing), he's mocking it.
On March 14 2018 04:02 Numy wrote: I was watching a bit of dota last weekend. They had some weird flying fairy thing support that seemed tricky. The idea in league would be pretty sweet.
not sure which hero youre referring to but maybe puck? puck is an extremely slippery hero by dota's standards and one of the heroes i wish we could have in lol. only problem is phase shift (his e) would be completely broken in lol. everything else about him we could bring over no problems
I know who puck is, I used to play dota back in the day . Puck without it's phase shift just isn't the same. Dodging abilities/autos etc. is just core to the experience.
Is Resistance Illaoi ever going to be released? It's been in the client this whole patch but can't actually grab it wtf.
On March 14 2018 04:02 Numy wrote: I was watching a bit of dota last weekend. They had some weird flying fairy thing support that seemed tricky. The idea in league would be pretty sweet.
not sure which hero youre referring to but maybe puck? puck is an extremely slippery hero by dota's standards and one of the heroes i wish we could have in lol. only problem is phase shift (his e) would be completely broken in lol. everything else about him we could bring over no problems
I know who puck is, I used to play dota back in the day . Puck without it's phase shift just isn't the same. Dodging abilities/autos etc. is just core to the experience.
Is Resistance Illaoi ever going to be released? It's been in the client this whole patch but can't actually grab it wtf.
Phase shift is just zhonyas no? You can Nerf it to be like rappell or playful trickster without making him "not puck". The problem is have is puck is not puck without blink dagger. The combo is what makes him to unpredictable.
Blink dagger is indeed a key. It's a combination I'd say of blink and phase shift being on a super low cooldown. Zhonyas with he ability to cancel it at any time and blink away as well as a damaging ability to you can jump to. Would actually fit perfect in league if not for the blink dagger requirement and the adjusting ability numbers. Riot is a strict always 4 buttons.
The 4 button thing is really the difficulty with illusions as well (which IMO would be a good concept for a deceptive champ). I suppose you could have a char with an ult that creates copies of yourself, then you toggle control of them with R, but that only scales up to 1 or 2 copies, and its more of a "split" lie Tien in the Dragonball WT than illusions.
Sure could do that. It's worse on other heroes like Rubrick with all the sub abilities. It does remove some cool stuff like casting two orbs without blinking but that's so dam niche lol.
On March 14 2018 21:43 Alaric wrote: Technically the blink to orb and cancelling of Phase Shift are just reactivating the ability, LoL can do that (see Swain's ult).
Puck in lol and 4 buttons are two different questions (unless you give Lol-puck a 5th ability, being blink dagger.
well swain as they said has 4 skills, reactivatable ult and a passive skill with rightclick on rooted targets (6 total) , I don't see how 4 buttons is a concern for a puck-like hero
On March 14 2018 22:49 St3MoR wrote: well swain as they said has 4 skills, reactivatable ult and a passive skill with rightclick on rooted targets (6 total) , I don't see how 4 buttons is a concern for a puck-like hero
Lulu and Rek'Sai got 7, Jayce/Nidalee got 8 (!) and I suppose you could argue that Karma, Lee Sin and LeBlanc got 7 too. If the ult changes the basic abilities champions can have a ton of different skills.
A support with a "stance/change basic abilities" ultimate would be super cool as it'd give a very unique level 6 powerspike since it'd be a huge utility increase instead of raw power like say Janna that makes peeling a breeze (hue).
Different skills on the same buttons while locking out other skills is fundamentally different than adding in more skills to existing skillset. Guys like Doom, Rubrick, keeper of the light for example. It's about having more while not locking out the primary skills.
that's why I used swain as the example, btw it is also worth mentioning that rito could actually implement a "unsealed spellbook" kind of thing over 1 of the regular abilities to allow something like rubick ult
I mean, number of buttons (or Puck) isn't really the limitation. Its controlling multiple characters at once. The Leblanc clone has always been very sad, for instance, so is Tibbers.
on that I can agree, pets are terrible to control in league, but if they could fix that even multiple pets could work for the blink into 1 or the other via rightclick a-la-thresh lantern or whatnot
edit: also special mention to pets randomly going out of range and teleporting back to you, that shit is very , at the very least an indicator would be nice
On March 14 2018 23:36 Numy wrote: Different skills on the same buttons while locking out other skills is fundamentally different than adding in more skills to existing skillset. Guys like Doom, Rubrick, keeper of the light for example. It's about having more while not locking out the primary skills.
But you're only locking out a skill for like 0.2 seconds if it's the ultimate that change abilities?
Besides lock outs, another way around the four button limits is item actives. Imagine a Victor like support but instead of the item being a bundle of stats it’s got a cool active ability.
Support is a good fit for this since they don’t earn the gold to get 6 items anyway.
On March 14 2018 23:36 Numy wrote: Different skills on the same buttons while locking out other skills is fundamentally different than adding in more skills to existing skillset. Guys like Doom, Rubrick, keeper of the light for example. It's about having more while not locking out the primary skills.
But you're only locking out a skill for like 0.2 seconds if it's the ultimate that change abilities?
It's incredibly clunky to have an ultimate at the same time as using that system to add more skills. Rubrick for example only gains ability after using his ultimate on a target. However if we say implemented that as a recast ability he wouldn't be able to reuse the ultimate without using the ability. If it's a switching skills he can't use his other base abilities without using the one he stole. So it's just super messy that doesn't really keep the same functionality.
Another problem is that you no longer have an ultimate. A way around this would be to make one of those switched abilities the ultimate but then how do you level that up? Currently the levels are the same as what your first form is. So that's another messy situation.
The last real issue is the one mentioned before. The level of your other skills are tied to the level of your first skills. So you can never truly have "6" abilities(ultimate is removed) but instead it's more like extra power to the 3 you have with different functionality.
As a concept I think it works fine. I like the whole dual form stuff they've done. As a way to have an additional "button" skill, don't think it works that well. To make it work you'd have to do a lot more messy workarounds which ultimately would just be far less elegant solution than just add in a button. Reactivating the same ability works for single split setups but doesn't really work if one ability has 2 different functional buttons after use. I can't think of many examples of this though.
speaking of controlling other units, does anyone know why lol doesnt have boxing? i think its pretty stupid that a game based off dota and wc3 doesnt allow boxing. i mean its not really required since you just hit tab to see all info about every player but personally ive been boxing in games since forever and i dont see why u shouldnt be able to in lol.
Why is it EUW is always broken when I actually want to play?
I wouldn't mind if League had better selection tools though, they could make more interesting things if you weren't limited to clicking/alt clicking. Actually the thing that annoys me more than that is you can't shift queue in League.
On March 15 2018 23:51 GrandInquisitor wrote: By boxing you mean box selecting? Why would you ever need to do that?
because its faster to box select than to click on the target champion. pretty much the only reason in lol so far, but if box selecting existed than youd open the game up to a lot more things (multiple units etc).
Box selecting would actually be really fun if they implemented a character with targeted AOE, like old Vlad E, but you have to have the enemy selected for it to apply.
On March 16 2018 20:45 AdsMoFro wrote: I could see champs that can control multiple units instead of hive mind style champs like Azir. Without box selecting that seems impossible.
It's possible but do we really want them in a game with champions like Nunu, Warwick or Ashe?
On March 17 2018 00:51 Bladeorade wrote: Are they reworking Irelia or something?
On March 16 2018 20:45 AdsMoFro wrote: I could see champs that can control multiple units instead of hive mind style champs like Azir. Without box selecting that seems impossible.
It's possible but do we really want them in a game with champions like Nunu, Warwick or Ashe?
Just listed examples of champions that can't do much mechanically. Nunu might be too simple, so I wouldn't mind seeing him reworked into something with a higher skill ceiling, but I'm not sure if I want to have Ashe / Warwick and a champion more complicated than Azir in the same game.
It's like "(slow) Zealot vs Marine" in sc2. A Bronze Protoss will murder a bronze Terran, but if they're both gold or higher the Protoss will always lose regardless of how well he can control his Zealots. In Starcraft you can play around that by adding other units, but you can't do that as easily in LoL.
I couldn't find an official comment but I'm guessing it's probably several reasons: she's old, she was hard to balance, her mechanics are pretty simple, and she never really pulled of the "I control blades with my mind" theme very well. The one riot comment about her that I did find implied that they wanted to update her Warwick style rather than Swain style. That is, they want to change the abilities but keep the play pattern.
I don't play Irelia so, judging from previous Riot reworks, that means I'll probably like this one.
I don't mind a rebalance on her, clearly her W is an outdated skill that they could change to % HP if they want to make her more splitpushy or make the lifesteal only when activated with a bigger bonus damage if they want her to be more of a diver. I don't see how that is a rework though. I know they have said the passive is a problem, but I don't really believe that. Her ult is a "meh" skill, but idk what I'd replace it with.
Riot speak last year on why she's getting VGU. Interestingly enough, Riot did fly in the NA Irelia one trick in Dec to playtest the new Irelia but nothing's been released or teased yet.
On March 17 2018 05:59 cLutZ wrote: I don't mind a rebalance on her, clearly her W is an outdated skill that they could change to % HP if they want to make her more splitpushy or make the lifesteal only when activated with a bigger bonus damage if they want her to be more of a diver. I don't see how that is a rework though. I know they have said the passive is a problem, but I don't really believe that. Her ult is a "meh" skill, but idk what I'd replace it with.
Long range slow (like Naut ult) projectile (her blades) that slows a single target and/or does bonus missing hp damage.
On March 17 2018 05:59 cLutZ wrote: I don't mind a rebalance on her, clearly her W is an outdated skill that they could change to % HP if they want to make her more splitpushy or make the lifesteal only when activated with a bigger bonus damage if they want her to be more of a diver. I don't see how that is a rework though. I know they have said the passive is a problem, but I don't really believe that. Her ult is a "meh" skill, but idk what I'd replace it with.
Long range slow (like Naut ult) projectile (her blades) that slows a single target and/or does bonus missing hp damage.
That doesn't really seem to fit either of the two options I laid out. I suppose missing damage could make her a pure assassin, but I dont see that being a stable kit. A ranged slow would, IMO, make her not Irelia anymore. Maybe if it was a blink to the target with a root it would fit in.
To me, Irelia is all about autos and dashes, and that is the identity that should be preserved. TBH, Camille is kind of like the over-Riot-ized version of an Irelia rework, so IDK how they are going to split the baby.
Here's a Rioter talking about Irelia. Basically, her ult's been moved to another part of her kit. Her Q has been amplified. New ult and another brand new ability
On March 17 2018 08:00 AdsMoFro wrote: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QgNJVHDnH94?start=1710" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here's a Rioter talking about Irelia. Basically, her ult's been moved to another part of her kit. Her Q has been amplified. New ult and another brand new ability
On March 17 2018 08:00 AdsMoFro wrote: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QgNJVHDnH94?start=1710" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here's a Rioter talking about Irelia. Basically, her ult's been moved to another part of her kit. Her Q has been amplified. New ult and another brand new ability
I'd guess W was totally replaced then
They're going to pull a Riot and make it her passive.
Yeah Riot said they didn't like how her W worked because sustain + power spike in the midgame that let her assassinate people + true damage. Nevermind that meanwhile and afterward they kept mixing true damage and %missing HP damage on most of their champs and their love of nerfing anything resembling a lane bully or a champ with a power curve that isn't either flat or going up toward the late game.
Caitlyn's an exception but that's one they won't be able to handle without removing her W and nerfing her range, eg. one they won't be able to handle, they have to leave her with her atypical curve, which is a great thing.
On March 17 2018 06:03 NeoIllusions wrote: Riot speak last year on why she's getting VGU. Interestingly enough, Riot did fly in the NA Irelia one trick in Dec to playtest the new Irelia but nothing's been released or teased yet.
ICU also did mention that he really liked the rework
I've always thought it'd be cool if irelia had some sort of ori-like / olaf-like interaction with her glaives.
Like say move her R to her E; E shoots a blade olaf style then you can Q to it or pick it up. Put stun on W and rework it so it's less... frustrating for both player. Maybe just a slow? Make her E charge based with the ability to pick glaives back up and say a max of 4; then you put old W in her passive along with a bunch of her stats (say 75%) and you base the stats gained from passive on how many glaives you have / their distance from you. So essentially you're either juggernaut with all glaives with mad on hit damage, or you're squish & mobile with no glaives. New R just give you more glaives to work with for a short time.
Maybe base W slow/root/stun on number of glaives you have? And I think different q CD for targets and glaives.
Hmm. Perhaps an overloaded kit though. Move overt certainlyT. I feel it would really embody the "soul in blades" lore and current blade surge gameplay.
Move R to E, make her passive on hit healing, W now slows an enemy or stuns if they have recently been hit by a blade, R pulls blades in removing CC if you had 3 or more out and marking nearby enemies bladed or whatever
Q doesn't go on cooldown to enemies recently hit by a blade
thats my random guess for how they make irelia too op this time and then nerf her into the ground after a month
the combos would be fun though, EQWautoEQ forever and if they CC you bam press R and start it all over again
On March 17 2018 03:14 Sent. wrote: Just listed examples of champions that can't do much mechanically. Nunu might be too simple, so I wouldn't mind seeing him reworked into something with a higher skill ceiling, but I'm not sure if I want to have Ashe / Warwick and a champion more complicated than Azir in the same game.
It's like "(slow) Zealot vs Marine" in sc2. A Bronze Protoss will murder a bronze Terran, but if they're both gold or higher the Protoss will always lose regardless of how well he can control his Zealots. In Starcraft you can play around that by adding other units, but you can't do that as easily in LoL.
i never understood this train of thought when it comes to designing champions. if the champion is viable at all levels, why does it matter how difficult he is to play? dota has invoker and meepo and then has lion. lion is one of dotas oldest heroes and has never been reworked but is completely fine also. the underlying problem is more so the fact that button mashing in lol is a legitimate way to play the game once youre fed. if you actually had to think about when and where to use your skills like in dota then the complexity of a champion becomes less of an issue
If a champion is mechanically simple and viable at all levels, there is a risk a terrible player can play him as well as a good player. If a champion has a very high skill ceiling and is viable at all levels, he's either a design marvel or overpowered at the highest level.
I'm just worried a multi-unit champion in League would end up with 42% win rate in solo Q and pick/ban status in pro play.
I'm kind of on evils side on this. There are a lot more skills in the game than just controlling your hero. If a bad player can play a hero as good as a good hero that signifies there are more fundamental issues to the game.
Lion is mechanically simple but all the map movements,timing etc. really changes how good a player can be.
edit: I should mention league is obviously more focused on mechanical prowess over the other intangibles. It's partly why you see so much complaining from reddit about "this game is too much of a team game now". People never bothered to learn all the other skills instead of mechanical ability so as riot as shifted focus their performance dips.
On March 17 2018 20:10 Sent. wrote: If a champion is mechanically simple and viable at all levels, there is a risk a terrible player can play him as well as a good player. If a champion has a very high skill ceiling and is viable at all levels, he's either a design marvel or overpowered at the highest level.
I'm just worried a multi-unit champion in League would end up with 42% win rate in solo Q and pick/ban status in pro play.
I mean, if that is your definition of design marvel, Irelia is one. She's like a 49% winrate in all SoloQ, same with Bronze and like .5% higher in Diamond.
On March 17 2018 23:28 Sent. wrote: Yeah some versions of Ryze, Azir and Leblanc were like that
They were all like that for different reasons though. Ryze is the saddest because he used to be such a good beginner champ that was also decent in pro play. Ryze's problem is the Warp is hard to use and his combos are just so non-intuitive now, Azir is the kiting vs. engage problem for pros, and Leblanc was just a problem with both Ping and technical execution.
I do think a meepo-like character in LOL would have balance issues (but the same is true in dota), but a Brewmaster type champ that has multiple characters for a limited duration on Ult IMO wouldn't have huge balance issues and would work gold +. People always played Yasuo even when he was a like a 46% pick
On March 17 2018 08:00 AdsMoFro wrote: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QgNJVHDnH94?start=1710" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here's a Rioter talking about Irelia. Basically, her ult's been moved to another part of her kit. Her Q has been amplified. New ult and another brand new ability
Bless QT and Scarra's heart for defending Nunu's current design.
The one designer said in discord/reddit that she's just using her Q like current irelia but has more ways of activating reset. Sounds fine to me. Irelia was all about spamming around creep waves and heroes with Q a lot of the time.
A friend of mine was on promotions for gold 5 which he lost 0/3 several days ago and today he reached these promos again and he did not have a free win. Anyone knows why this may happen? I saw both of his promos with my own eyes, but could not find an explanation? Any ideas? Anyone?
On March 20 2018 06:20 M2 wrote: A friend of mine was on promotions for gold 5 which he lost 0/3 several days ago and today he reached these promos again and he did not have a free win. Anyone knows why this may happen? I saw both of his promos with my own eyes, but could not find an explanation? Any ideas? Anyone?
Maybe the prompt just didn't come up? Has he played in the promos yet? I've seen enough laggy client bullshit to assume that's the problem. If he's played a match into and not seen it then idk
On March 20 2018 06:20 M2 wrote: A friend of mine was on promotions for gold 5 which he lost 0/3 several days ago and today he reached these promos again and he did not have a free win. Anyone knows why this may happen? I saw both of his promos with my own eyes, but could not find an explanation? Any ideas? Anyone?
Maybe the prompt just didn't come up? Has he played in the promos yet? I've seen enough laggy client bullshit to assume that's the problem. If he's played a match into and not seen it then idk
yeah he finished 2nd series with another lose (2:3) had he had the free win he would have been gold now
On March 20 2018 06:20 M2 wrote: A friend of mine was on promotions for gold 5 which he lost 0/3 several days ago and today he reached these promos again and he did not have a free win. Anyone knows why this may happen? I saw both of his promos with my own eyes, but could not find an explanation? Any ideas? Anyone?
Maybe the prompt just didn't come up? Has he played in the promos yet? I've seen enough laggy client bullshit to assume that's the problem. If he's played a match into and not seen it then idk
yeah he finished 2nd series with another lose (2:3) had he had the free win he would have been gold now
I believe you don't get the free win for series to the next division, only within a division.
If you lose your promos but make it back into your series, you’ll start off with at least one win. This applies to every division and tier up to Gold I, so you’re on your own for promotion into Platinum and above!
In instances where a player elects to dodge a game in a promotion series by leaving during champion select, their account will be ineligible for promo helper upon entering their next series.
Finally, promo helper only works once each time you get it. If you’re in a series to move from Gold IV to Gold III with promo helper active, but lose the series and then demote into Gold V, you’ll have promo helper from Gold V to Gold IV, but you won’t have it for Gold IV to Gold III
On March 20 2018 07:51 Ansibled wrote: Promo Helper
Finally, promo helper only works once each time you get it. If you’re in a series to move from Gold IV to Gold III with promo helper active, but lose the series and then demote into Gold V, you’ll have promo helper from Gold V to Gold IV, but you won’t have it for Gold IV to Gold III
This. I read it a bit late but he fell to Silver 2 before coming back to Gold 5 promos. I understand now. Thanks
Those splashes look neat. Seems they kept most of Irelia's core thing of hitting people while adding in some other stuff. I'm not sure if it's better or worse than current. Do like the new model.
Looks like she got super long auto attack range for a melee champion? Even longer than the "spear" wielding champs like Xin/Wukong etc. Think she looks pretty cool, a lot more interesting than her current iteration at least. But I most certainly wont have the APM to play her. QQ
I love this new design, can't wait to play her live. Only thing I don't like is her having AoE stun, she's supposed to be a duelist not a strong team fighter, and this iteration looks like a beast 2vs2/3v3 skirmisher.
Her old W was just "basic attack does X damage and Heals" so they shifted that type of thing to her passive and instead gave her an actual spell. I'm really confused at that being a point of contention.
She seems pretty similar style of hero on paper. Basic attack passive rewards sticking on someone. Q is the same but with some extra ability. W allows her to survive the dive more. E swaps out the point and click ability which was strong into something that's slightly weaker but has a bigger potential. Her ulti is pretty different but offers more teamfight power.
It's prob the rework outside of WW that seems to be the most true to her old kit. If this translates to something completely different in practice then I'll be a bit disappointed. Used to love irelia.
What a dissapointing Irelia rework - another dashing. split pushing chick with some dueling ult, it is just a copy of Fiora and Camille. Liked old version but this new one won't be played.
On March 21 2018 05:13 Numy wrote: Her old W was just "basic attack does X damage and Heals" so they shifted that type of thing to her passive and instead gave her an actual spell. I'm really confused at that being a point of contention.
She seems pretty similar style of hero on paper. Basic attack passive rewards sticking on someone. Q is the same but with some extra ability. W allows her to survive the dive more. E swaps out the point and click ability which was strong into something that's slightly weaker but has a bigger potential. Her ulti is pretty different but offers more teamfight power.
It's prob the rework outside of WW that seems to be the most true to her old kit. If this translates to something completely different in practice then I'll be a bit disappointed. Used to love irelia.
The E change really makes no sense. That is why new Irelia is not old irelia at all. If it was a line skillshot that still had the slow vs. stun dynamic, then I'd agree, but with the weird double cast line thing + her ult basically being thresh ult, its more a new champ than a rework.
Every rework is a new champ. The only one that resembles the old champ in more than vague terms is WW. Rest are pretty much new champs. She's always been a dashing split pusher. I don't get what is going on right now. Did people just not play Irelia before? You used to go Triforce botrk!! Remember the dynamic of Jax vs Irelia where Irelia spiked earlier so it was all about pushing that lead as hard as possible.
This rework is far more inline than something like Sion or even Swain.
Yeah i think they stayed pretty true to old irelia and modernised her.
W was a shit unhealthy skill. So was her passive. So was her E. Her old R was pretty irrelevant and pretty much just there. Her only core gameplay was Q resets and big auto steroids. She's retained both of those and got better at doing it vs a pool much less able to be bamboozled by her old tricks. Her new abilities cement her as a strong tricksy skirmisher / duelist and let her be less... obvious.
My first impression is it is a Warwick level success.