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Patch 7.24b is live. Small tweaks on various champions. |
United States37500 Posts
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
There is no new champion this patch.
Patch 7.24: Live on Dec. 6th, 2017
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Damn I thought J4 was in a good spot finally. Idk why they nerfed passive and Q. Do one or the other
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its just riot doing riot things, if it was ahri they would buff him for no reason
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When was the last time Ahri was competitively relevant? Perhaps you meant to say Syndra?
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J4 is one of the best junglers and has been a top tier pick this whole year(mainly top though).
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Not my favorite patch. Don't think eve needed a buff. Not sure that the Xin nerf enough. He was pretty broken for a while. It probably helps though. I really don't like how they handled EZ. They went a way that pulls a lot of power out of him as a jungle champ but probably doesn't solve the key problems with lane klepto. For Malz I have no idea if the buff is enough. Honestly I just don't like it when he is good.
Rune changes make snese mostly but I think phase rush needed more help than they gave.
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On December 06 2017 07:03 Numy wrote: J4 is one of the best junglers and has been a top tier pick this whole year(mainly top though). Yeah but they always nerf him to where he isnt worth picking and he is one of the most fun champions to play.
They should nerf his passive or his Q and then see where he's at. Both at once reduces his damage a lot
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Xin/J4 are beasts right now so we'll see if the double nerf hits too hard. I suspect it won't be that bad but balance is a fickle bitch. Sometimes perception is enough to hit champs hard. Sometimes one small number change pushes it past the line. J4 offers so much I don't think that will be the case though.
They should delete Malz.
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Meanwhile on PBE Graves gets a 70% slow with a level 1 W.
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Just what a high burst damaged ranged powerfarming jungler needs. Massive soft CC! They should do breathalyzer tests over there. Sure he's not in a great spot but giving a massive slow and blind to a power farming high damage jungler is asking to break the game.
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Is it possible to teach a monkey how to play league?
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On December 06 2017 08:27 Sponkz wrote: Is it possible to teach a monkey how to play league? there are plenty of boosted animals in soloq. surely some are monkeys
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Kayn is like the worst champ in the game when your team doesn't want to fight.
Being regular Kayn at 20 minutes is the worst feeling in the fucking world. LOL. Such a useless champ before the transform... no damage, no CC, so squishy...
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kayne just feels like shaco 2.0 to me
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At 20 minutes I think you can just randomly go hit someone once and get full bar. It's got this odd scaling thing where later on gives more orbs to the point where anything pre 6-10 minutes is almost pointless unless you snowball the fuck out of it with constant kills. I find the far worse thing about Kayn is if you get the wrong transformation because you accidentally got an assist on different target at 12-15 minutes after trying so hard to build up to the other. Such a dumb mechanic.
It's baffling that they say they don't want to give you actual details on what transformation you are building up towards because that would make you do "sub-optimal" movements but at the same time you have to do "sub-optimal" movements to gain the optimal transformation for you. So obscuring the information just makes it so much worse for the players.
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Can't you choose anyway? Doesn't the mechanic allow you to transform instantly or lets you wait to choose the other? Also: hitting ranged enemies gives Shadow Kayn orbs. Conversely, hitting melee enemies gives Demon orbs I think.
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If you get the wrong one you have to wait another 4 minutes before you can transform. So say it's a slow game like iCanada was talking about, if you in that one teamfight kill a ranged first when you really wanted Red form then you only getting transformation you want at 24+ minutes. At that stage of the game you may just lose it completely. It's even worse since if you were building the whole time to Red form with zero Blue form orbs but at that teamfight hit a ranged a bunch you'll get blue form due to the scaling orb nature.
When I was playing Kayn a bunch if it was a slow game I would specifically just tunnel on the type I needed in a teamfight even if it wasn't perfectly optimal. Maybe that was a bad idea but the way I see it is to be optimal overall you have to choose suboptimal lines or you get punished far too hard. Yes hitting ranged gives you Blue form while Melee gives you Red.
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Damn I thought J4 was in a good spot finally. Idk why they nerfed passive and Q. Do one or the other
I was surprised too, there's a lot more concerning champions in the game than Jarvan.
I personally think Kayn taking forever to change forms in a slow game is fine, because he's a high damage assassin jungler and fits a niche just like Shaco. There should be a punishment if he just sits in the jungle and farms, or doesn't make plays on the map. It's not like he is completely useless without changing forms.
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The issue I have with the form chance is less how long it takes and more how frustratingly obscure it is with the information surrounding the transformation. Hiding the information when it's so vital just doesn't make sense. How does that benefit the player? It punishes you heavily for making good choices in context of a fight but not in context of your own transformation while not giving you tools to properly plan out how to make good choices.
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I don't understand your issues to be honest. It's straightforward how to achieve transformation. You pick the champion, you have to have a plan around how to achieve that. Games might not always play out the way you planned them to, it happens. Not every team gets 100% winrate because they got to execute their plan.
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How do you make a plan, adapt the plan and execute the plan if they hide half the information? Then punish you if you do all that but right at the end mistakenly do a good play that nets advantage for your team but instantly gets you the wrong transformation.
edit: Since it seems you don't know Kayn workings or I'm explaining it horribly let's cut the misunderstanding and get on the same page.
You start the game in base Kayn. Then after that every melee enemy hero you damage gets you Red orbs. Every ranged enemy you damage gets you blue. The impact of the orbs themselves is not a fixed number nor is it linear. Instead it ramps up over time. That means early orbs are less impactful than later orbs. This own it's own would be fine but there's another issue later
The orbs you gather are shown by this little white circle above your hero portrait. Now the tricky part here is that you don't get told what form you are building up to. Instead it's just a generic circle that increases with orb gathering. If you add in the fact that orbs are non-linear then you got an issue here. You can spend most of the early game gaining orbs for the transformation you want only to enter into a teamfight just before transforming and instantly getting the other orb. You also have no way of knowing what exact form you are getting if the game is scrappy early on. This is due again to how the orbs value change over time and how the information on the forms is obscured.
This is what I have an issue with. From a design perspective I don't really see how it makes sense to obscure this information. What value does it add to the hero?
edit: It's made worse by this comment from the hero designer
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as if kayn players would make team based decisions anyway lol, the designer doesn't even understand the point of his own champ. Kayn is literally one of the most selfish/carry orientated junglers in the game right now.
this patch is basically "so close yet so far"
They correctly identify some outliers but then don't fix the problem at all. Or they just randomly murk more melee champs (j4/xin) that always feel perfectly fair to play against because melee champions are easy to deal with in this game.
Meanwhile fleet footwork gets a massive buff and the impact of all this frontloaded high damage in ranged vs melee interactions has yet to be addressed. They really are shameless or clueless, pick one
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On December 06 2017 22:20 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +Damn I thought J4 was in a good spot finally. Idk why they nerfed passive and Q. Do one or the other I was surprised too, there's a lot more concerning champions in the game than Jarvan. I personally think Kayn taking forever to change forms in a slow game is fine, because he's a high damage assassin jungler and fits a niche just like Shaco. There should be a punishment if he just sits in the jungle and farms, or doesn't make plays on the map. It's not like he is completely useless without changing forms.
He's only a high damage assassin if you build him that way and take blue form. But getting blue form most of the time is kind of trolling. Might as well take revive/cleanse as summoners.
It's also silly to compare him to shaco for a number of reasons. Namely, he has far greater warning time for his ganks. Secondly, before he gets a transform if you use Q to gap close and don't get damage off prior to a transformation you literally do zero damage. Third, shaco has gank assist CC. Shaci also wins most 2v2s because of how un-telegraphed he is, combined with the stealth and gap closer. Finally, shaco is probably the least efficient jungler in the game at farming, while Kayn is one of the fastest farmers in the game.
And he's pretty close to useless before the transform after around level 7 to 9 because his stats per level, ability damage per level, and ability scaling in base form are low as balls. Rapidly you just can't really 2v2 and need to be patient for odd man plays or you're pretty much just inting. You have room to force plays a bit early game but you'll never get transformation that early unless you're playing like a league below your actual skill.
Kayn is good if you can hard invade and skirmish with support, just like w kindred. If you can't then you're just fucked, like atleast kindred can just farm for late, but Kayn actively needs to start participating in fights where he knows he's weak. It feels bad.
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On December 06 2017 12:44 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2017 08:27 Sponkz wrote: Is it possible to teach a monkey how to play league? there are plenty of boosted animals in soloq. surely some are monkeys
Could you imagine it? A legit ape playing league and perhaps being better than the average bronze guy. This is the world i wanna live in.
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On December 07 2017 00:48 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2017 12:44 Frolossus wrote:On December 06 2017 08:27 Sponkz wrote: Is it possible to teach a monkey how to play league? there are plenty of boosted animals in soloq. surely some are monkeys Could you imagine it? A legit ape playing league and perhaps being better than the average bronze guy. This is the world i wanna live in.
Today I played my first two ranked games in months, I could put those monkeys to shame. Monkeys at least have a brain, I legit face walked into a fed Vayne. Still won both games though
Did Karthus really need AP ratio buffs? I never considered the damage from his ult to be lacking, it still scales incredibly well into the lategame, now he can blow you up with one ability even easier.
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Without deathfire touch he loses a bunch of dps, especially in lane.
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The buff basically adds dft back to his ult, othe than the person chosen by aery/comet the damage is essentially the same as 2017 karthus
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If you hit multiple people simultaneously aery will hit all of them. That was happening to me with any circle AoE I used last patch, like Kog ultimate. Should be the same for Karthus ult unless they changed it.
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That sounds like a bug. Aery only goes on one target at a time, or at least should.
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Heard someone speculate today that this patch might make Morgana jungle a thing since it gives her a ton of mana regeneration, a big cooldown reduction on W (her main damage ability), and healing equal to 15% of the damage her spells do to large jungle monsters which provides a lot of healing since monsters won't dodge the pool and will eat the whole thing. With mana regeneration, health regeneration and high uptime on her damage source it might work. Probably not top tier but I'm excited to test it.
In addition to potentially being legit good, it also has awesome cheese application. Get a leash on blue, smite, then run direct to mid lane and hit binding and pool on a laner that is probably still level one.
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I've seen morg jungle twice already, it seems fairly decent. It just feels very lackluster if you cannot surprise your opponent with your Q since it's rather easy to dodge due to its slow missile speed.
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Morg jungle is a classic liquid legends pocket pick. It’s always been average at worst but yea this patch might make it actually good.
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On December 07 2017 00:09 VayneAuthority wrote: as if kayn players would make team based decisions anyway lol, the designer doesn't even understand the point of his own champ. Kayn is literally one of the most selfish/carry orientated junglers in the game right now.
this patch is basically "so close yet so far"
They correctly identify some outliers but then don't fix the problem at all. Or they just randomly murk more melee champs (j4/xin) that always feel perfectly fair to play against because melee champions are easy to deal with in this game.
Meanwhile fleet footwork gets a massive buff and the impact of all this frontloaded high damage in ranged vs melee interactions has yet to be addressed. They really are shameless or clueless, pick one Jarvan Jungle OP.GG: WR 1st, PR 2nd Champion.gg: WR 2nd, PR 1st
Xin OP.GG WR 2nds, PR 15th Champion.gg: WR 1st, PR 6th
They aren't hitting random melee champions "just because."
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On December 07 2017 08:27 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2017 00:09 VayneAuthority wrote: as if kayn players would make team based decisions anyway lol, the designer doesn't even understand the point of his own champ. Kayn is literally one of the most selfish/carry orientated junglers in the game right now.
this patch is basically "so close yet so far"
They correctly identify some outliers but then don't fix the problem at all. Or they just randomly murk more melee champs (j4/xin) that always feel perfectly fair to play against because melee champions are easy to deal with in this game.
Meanwhile fleet footwork gets a massive buff and the impact of all this frontloaded high damage in ranged vs melee interactions has yet to be addressed. They really are shameless or clueless, pick one Jarvan Jungle OP.GG: WR 1st, PR 2nd Champion.gg: WR 2nd, PR 1st Xin OP.GG WR 2nds, PR 15th Champion.gg: WR 1st, PR 6th They aren't hitting random melee champions "just because."
Ya if you want a "just because" case, I'd offer up Malzahar. I don't even play the champion, but still confused why they decided they just HAD to nerf his ult.
Maybe it's just because I'm a shit-tier Silver scrub but I've never felt like a Malzahar was particularly unfair in any game of league I've played in my life....
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agreed on malzahar. seems like a pretty dumb nerf when you already needed to burn flash to get a solo kill anyway. probably wont even get the kill anyway with the damage nerf now
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He had top win rate mid and 3rd highest top, he was gonna get some sort of nerf.
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The problem with malz is he requires negative skill while being really strong.
He would definitely be in the running for easiest champ to play in any role at the moment.
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Malz holds 1st or 3rd winrates on both OP.GG and Champion.GG in both top and mid lanes, though his play is much more common in NA. They nerfed his ult because in addition to the 125/200/275 (+0.8 ability power) it will be doing 2/3/4% (+0.5% per 100 AP) of target's maximum health per second from the null zone it puts them on.
Seriously people, do some minor research or critical thinking.
I will say that hitting both the base damage and the ratio as hard as they did was probably not a good idea.
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Why not? There is no reason to have malz in the viable champ pool
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There's also no reason not to. 0/25/50 (30% AP) is a pretty big nerf to happen all at once.
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easy way to deal with malz has always been to pick something with decent base damage and wave clear, take dshield and get QSS first. then you can just bully him around all game
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Second wind + dorans shield is bonkers vs any dot champ
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also good against kassadin!!
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On December 07 2017 11:01 cLutZ wrote: Why not? There is no reason to have malz in the viable champ pool Yea that's my opinion of him. What does he offer to the game? He's essentially a gearcheck in a raid, a less interesting version of annie. They screwed up big time by making him so safe while being immobile. The whole point of having a hero with that strong disable/pick is that they are vulnerable but Riot decided to make him super safe too.
Honestly the teams that did the "class updates" should either be removed from design or placed under way more supervision. They essentially fucked up every single thing they touched.
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Tank update was okay
That's because they've had practice screwing up with the Juggernaut patch. I consider that one of the biggest mistakes Riot ever made, especially bringing the patch so close to worlds, preventing reasonable balancing.
Malz maybe needed a nerf, but it just looks like Riot decided to butcher his ratios to prevent him from solokilling, now he needs someone else with him to kill a target. Basically still makes the SSG strat still viable, but now he doesn't seem very good in soloQ.
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Didn't the tank update have Cho being crazy strong for months along with Maokai?
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Tank update was just Mao Seju Zac + tank items.
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On December 07 2017 08:27 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2017 00:09 VayneAuthority wrote: as if kayn players would make team based decisions anyway lol, the designer doesn't even understand the point of his own champ. Kayn is literally one of the most selfish/carry orientated junglers in the game right now.
this patch is basically "so close yet so far"
They correctly identify some outliers but then don't fix the problem at all. Or they just randomly murk more melee champs (j4/xin) that always feel perfectly fair to play against because melee champions are easy to deal with in this game.
Meanwhile fleet footwork gets a massive buff and the impact of all this frontloaded high damage in ranged vs melee interactions has yet to be addressed. They really are shameless or clueless, pick one Jarvan Jungle OP.GG: WR 1st, PR 2nd Champion.gg: WR 2nd, PR 1st Xin OP.GG WR 2nds, PR 15th Champion.gg: WR 1st, PR 6th They aren't hitting random melee champions "just because."
monkey spouting off to do critical thinking while regurgitating generic stats, incredible
Let me know when they picked xin in pro play... hint he wasnt picked or banned once in the entirety of kespa cup. Champions that can't jump walls at will aren't good at anything except stomping low elo.
User was banned for this post.
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On December 07 2017 23:04 Sent. wrote: Tank update was just Mao Seju Zac + tank items. Ah yes was it the one with bramble? I remember Zac being insane perma ban champ after that and then Mao coming later along with Sej. Now they nowhere to been seen outside of Mao. None of the updates really managed to do their function I think. They just landed up making the heroes OP then nerfing them back to irrelevance mostly.
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On December 07 2017 23:09 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2017 08:27 Gahlo wrote:On December 07 2017 00:09 VayneAuthority wrote: as if kayn players would make team based decisions anyway lol, the designer doesn't even understand the point of his own champ. Kayn is literally one of the most selfish/carry orientated junglers in the game right now.
this patch is basically "so close yet so far"
They correctly identify some outliers but then don't fix the problem at all. Or they just randomly murk more melee champs (j4/xin) that always feel perfectly fair to play against because melee champions are easy to deal with in this game.
Meanwhile fleet footwork gets a massive buff and the impact of all this frontloaded high damage in ranged vs melee interactions has yet to be addressed. They really are shameless or clueless, pick one Jarvan Jungle OP.GG: WR 1st, PR 2nd Champion.gg: WR 2nd, PR 1st Xin OP.GG WR 2nds, PR 15th Champion.gg: WR 1st, PR 6th They aren't hitting random melee champions "just because." monkey spouting off to do critical thinking while regurgitating generic stats, incredible Let me know when they picked xin in pro play... hint he wasnt picked or banned once in the entirety of kespa cup. Champions that can't jump walls at will aren't good at anything except stomping low elo.
Do you actually think they only balance for pro play? His winrates were number 1 for platinum and above. What level are you at again?
Your posts seem well thought out at first glance, but in reality they are all fueled so hard by confirmation bias. You believe rito sucks, are bad balancing and out to get you or something. So every post after a patch is about this theme. You never actually take a real look at it you just try to find out where they may have fucked up and post about that. If you were more balanced people might take you more seriously and your points might also make more sense.
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On December 07 2017 23:20 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2017 23:04 Sent. wrote: Tank update was just Mao Seju Zac + tank items. Ah yes was it the one with bramble? I remember Zac being insane perma ban champ after that and then Mao coming later along with Sej. Now they nowhere to been seen outside of Mao. None of the updates really managed to do their function I think. They just landed up making the heroes OP then nerfing them back to irrelevance mostly.
It was the one with Stoneplate, Adaptive helm and GA being turned into an offensive item.
I think Riot did a pretty good job of adding depth to Zac's and Sejuani's kits, or if not depth then at least letting the players who play them feel their abilties can do meaningful things in a teamight they initiated. Previous versions of these two had nothing to do after the fight was started. I have mixed feelings about the new Maokai but I agree that the old one was too versatile of a tank.
To me it doesn't matter whether the champs were too strong or too weak for some time after the update, it's just how this game works. The changes to champion kits were good or at least didn't make the champions significantly worse design-wise. Don't see how the update team fucked the game up with this one.
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On December 07 2017 23:56 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2017 23:20 Numy wrote:On December 07 2017 23:04 Sent. wrote: Tank update was just Mao Seju Zac + tank items. Ah yes was it the one with bramble? I remember Zac being insane perma ban champ after that and then Mao coming later along with Sej. Now they nowhere to been seen outside of Mao. None of the updates really managed to do their function I think. They just landed up making the heroes OP then nerfing them back to irrelevance mostly. It was the one with Stoneplate, Adaptive helm and GA being turned into an offensive item. I think Riot did a pretty good job of adding depth to Zac's and Sejuani's kits, or if not depth then at least letting the players who play them feel their abilties can do meaningful things in a teamight they initiated. Previous versions of these two had nothing to do after the fight was started. I have mixed feelings about the new Maokai but I agree that the old one was too versatile of a tank. To me it doesn't matter whether the champs were too strong or too weak for some time after the update, it's just how this game works. The changes to champion kits were good or at least didn't make the champions significantly worse design-wise. Don't see how the update team fucked the game up with this one. Hmm yea I can agree with Sej and Zac to a degree. I don't think Mao changes really accomplished anything.
Maybe tank update was a better overall one compared to the others. Others really sucked.
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On December 07 2017 23:09 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2017 08:27 Gahlo wrote:On December 07 2017 00:09 VayneAuthority wrote: as if kayn players would make team based decisions anyway lol, the designer doesn't even understand the point of his own champ. Kayn is literally one of the most selfish/carry orientated junglers in the game right now.
this patch is basically "so close yet so far"
They correctly identify some outliers but then don't fix the problem at all. Or they just randomly murk more melee champs (j4/xin) that always feel perfectly fair to play against because melee champions are easy to deal with in this game.
Meanwhile fleet footwork gets a massive buff and the impact of all this frontloaded high damage in ranged vs melee interactions has yet to be addressed. They really are shameless or clueless, pick one Jarvan Jungle OP.GG: WR 1st, PR 2nd Champion.gg: WR 2nd, PR 1st Xin OP.GG WR 2nds, PR 15th Champion.gg: WR 1st, PR 6th They aren't hitting random melee champions "just because." monkey spouting off to do critical thinking while regurgitating generic stats, incredible Let me know when they picked xin in pro play... hint he wasnt picked or banned once in the entirety of kespa cup. Champions that can't jump walls at will aren't good at anything except stomping low elo. Or the fact that Lee Sin and Kha'Zix perform the same role from the jungle while being more flexible for pro play. Xin is clearly better than just stomping low elo, or he wouldn't have been the 2nd highest WR on high KR ladder from the jungle.
We get that you have a hard on for hating Riot's balance team, but take up actual grievances that you put a little thought into instead of ranting like a baby.
To touch on Malz being Flash reliant and that being bad in pro play, Unsealed Spellbook/Cosmic Insight/Lucidity is 40% summoner CDR.
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Is solo lane Morgana just a complete monster now or has she always been sleeper? The W buff just seem completely bonkers, in teamfights she spew out pools like Karthus throw skittles.
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On the subject of sleeper, Nunu has a really good win rate right now. I don't think he got anything this patch. Was he good all along and unplayed, or were people using bad tunes and only now figured out that guardian is good?
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I looked at nunus win rate not long ago and people who played him lots had great win rates and people who didnt had terrible ones. Maybe that knowledge became common enough that randoms could succeed upping overall win rates.
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On December 09 2017 05:39 Jek wrote: Is solo lane Morgana just a complete monster now or has she always been sleeper? The W buff just seem completely bonkers, in teamfights she spew out pools like Karthus throw skittles.
Monster. Her effective healing late game increased 6 fold. They buffed the percentages by double lategame and since it's no longer spell vamp doesn't suffer the 66% aoe penalty on pool.
She also heals fully from QW'ing raptors.
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What are people's opinions on Heca jungle right now. He zooms across the maps for ganks so fast it's not even funny.
Also MF really needs a nerf, ridiculously oppressive bot laner.
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On December 09 2017 05:49 JimmiC wrote: I looked at nunus win rate not long ago and people who played him lots had great win rates and people who didnt had terrible ones. Maybe that knowledge became common enough that randoms could succeed upping overall win rates.
I saw the 50+ games winrate but, since picking nunu has been a joke for so long, I assumed that the winrate for newer nunu players was being artificially deflated by trolls.
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lol it could be, I didn't even think about that. But I was thinking experienced nunu players know its more about fucking with the other jungler and slowing laners and new nunu players try to play him like other junglers.
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All about making other jungler as useless as you.
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clash mode looks cool. no clue how i'm supposed to field a full 5 man roster that can constantly free up their schedule for events within the same elo bracket.
ranked 5s never worked for me in season 1/2 even with 10 man rosters and very scattered elo ranges because people always have other shit they have to do
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so there will be separated layers for different elo levels? like lets say your team is placed in gold after members soloQ ranks are calculated and averaged and then the team only plays in that elo? Something like that?
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According to reddit, accounts will be tied to SMSable phone #s to try and curb smurfing.
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so can't you tie phone to the smurf account? or they gonna do it for all accounts? unrelated to Clash?
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I have my wifes cell and ny personal and work so i could ahve 3 accounts! That being said i only use one, but i could.
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On December 13 2017 02:09 JimmiC wrote: I have my wifes cell and ny personal and work so i could ahve 3 accounts! That being said i only use one, but i could. yeah some people will have such options, but overall the phone thing should make smurfing in clash harder and rarer. I would assume that most of the smurfs will not have wife and work phone and using someone else's phone could be inconvenient more or less
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They can use their moms' phones too
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If riot really wants to reduce smurfing they should add a toggle switch that says “are you drunk right now” and give you two MMRs depending on how the switch is toggeled.
At least among the working adults that I know this is by far the number one use case for smurfs. If you went to the bar with friends after work you don’t want to go on a huge losing streak if you play after you get home.
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Why can't you just play normal drafts or ranked flex?
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Iget what winter is saying, I just eat the losses and figure ill make it up later, but normals i dont enjoy playing my mains and then flex alone can be a pain because the groups will place blame, a few beverages in im not willing to deal.
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Can confirm, playing flex alone is for masochists only
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Can confirm, playing flex alone is for masochists only
Normal draft is also not fun for this reason. Even if there's no flame, playing against a premade who dump on some lane because the opponent is already a whole league lower is not fun. Same with 4/5 man premades.
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Afaik premades are usually matched against people with higher personal mmr (unless another premade is available for match ofc)
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That is my understanding as well, but I'm 95% sure those rules are relaxed in normal drafts, simply because I've been playing it for a month or so, so I assume my MMR is not fluctuating greatly, and I am still ending up in games where players are between D4-S5. In fact I've started hitting up op.gg 5 minutes into games because I'm seriously wondering why my ADC counterpart very obviously struggling to even stay in lane against me, and some other lane is getting obliterated, because the poor silver guy is getting camped by two Plat buddies.
Tbh I think that's OK for normals, they're not supposed to be taken very seriously, but it makes the game mode pretty lackluster. I had originally wanted to use it to practice until ranked was more balanced, but I gave up, and since starting ranked again I've realized I'm pretty rusty.
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Not about the opponent for me. It’s about being the odd man out in someone else’s premade. All your calls are ignored, the jungler is sure as shit going to gank for one of his friends if ever. And at some point he will gank for his friend who is feeding the hardest and give up a 1v2 double kill because his useless friend is baggering him into decisions on discord or whatever.
But if you get dove because your jungler is constantly showing himself body guarding his crying friend you are mistaken if you don’t think the ? Pings aren’t coming.
I don’t share your normal draft experience at all, but I think it’s pretty normal this time of year. Everyone who normally doesn’t play normals will be bunched into silver mmr so hilarity will ensue.
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Still shit games. You shit stomp them hard enough that you can win 2 v 5s or you lose.
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On December 14 2017 03:22 DarkCore wrote: That is my understanding as well, but I'm 95% sure those rules are relaxed in normal drafts, simply because I've been playing it for a month or so, so I assume my MMR is not fluctuating greatly, and I am still ending up in games where players are between D4-S5. In fact I've started hitting up op.gg 5 minutes into games because I'm seriously wondering why my ADC counterpart very obviously struggling to even stay in lane against me, and some other lane is getting obliterated, because the poor silver guy is getting camped by two Plat buddies.
Tbh I think that's OK for normals, they're not supposed to be taken very seriously, but it makes the game mode pretty lackluster. I had originally wanted to use it to practice until ranked was more balanced, but I gave up, and since starting ranked again I've realized I'm pretty rusty. Your account uses different MMRs for normals and ranked. So say you started playing in S2 then immediately got into ranked at level 30, started Silver 3 and ranked up to Diamon 4 over the years without playing any normal games, your normal mmr is probably somewhere around the normal equivalent of Silver 3.
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Then there is whole playing normals with guys you suck with and in rolls you suck at dragging it down. If you guys are like me, if i play a normal im taking out something odd
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Your normal mmr should account for that.
Normal is just hidden ranked, if you play them once in a blue moon you are in silver.
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normal draft has such a small playerbase anything from like p2+ can match you with people ranked anywhere from mid silver to rank 120 challengers
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I was under the impression ranked was the lowest pop queue on na
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PATch 24b is here.
https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-724b-notes
I really don’t like how the are balancing EZ by pulling power out of the champ instead of pulling power out of the klepto interaction they leave him far to weak with anything but klepto. That leaves zero build or rune choices, kills ez jungle and is just a clunky way to do it.
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On December 15 2017 06:30 Ansibled wrote: Yasuo buffs seem good. Flare noted.
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United States37500 Posts
I'm not going to create a new thread for the 7.24b patch. It's mostly value adjustments on certain champs, nothing changed drastically in terms of ability or design. 7.24b patch link is stickied for easier access.
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Did they really need to double Yasuo's MR per level and his Q+R? Meanwhile Zed and Talon have 0 MR per level.
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What am I supposed to do with all these champion shards? I have over 100k blue essence and own every champion..
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On December 15 2017 22:23 Bladeorade wrote: What am I supposed to do with all these champion shards? I have over 100k blue essence and own every champion.. Wait for the next time the BE shop is available.
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On December 15 2017 17:26 Jek wrote: Did they really need to double Yasuo's MR per level and his Q+R? Meanwhile Zed and Talon have 0 MR per level. Just popped into practice tool with both. They both gain MR/level.
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On December 15 2017 22:46 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 22:23 Bladeorade wrote: What am I supposed to do with all these champion shards? I have over 100k blue essence and own every champion.. Wait for the next time the BE shop is available. Thats lame
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I save the shards of champions I play often so I can upgrade my mastery levels. Is there anything wrong with that?
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it is a good idea Sent, specially because upgrading without shard is super costly now imho, I think rito are looking into changing that system (my guess would be lesser BE to upgrade cheaper champs)
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I just want something to use my blue on. I'd be happy for a 10000:1 blue to orange trade.
On December 15 2017 22:50 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 17:26 Jek wrote: Did they really need to double Yasuo's MR per level and his Q+R? Meanwhile Zed and Talon have 0 MR per level. Just popped into practice tool with both. They both gain MR/level. Oh. But stiiiiillll double MR per level is a pretty hefty buff when they are turning up his Q and R. Hope this doesn't mean my games are going to be filled with the history's most anoying samurai.
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On December 16 2017 01:39 St3MoR wrote: it is a good idea Sent, specially because upgrading without shard is super costly now imho, I think rito are looking into changing that system (my guess would be lesser BE to upgrade cheaper champs) I believe Riot scrapped the plan to reduce the BE cost of upgrading Mastery because of a lack of BE sinks.
On December 16 2017 02:08 Jek wrote:I just want something to use my blue on. I'd be happy for a 10000:1 blue to orange trade. Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 22:50 Gahlo wrote:On December 15 2017 17:26 Jek wrote: Did they really need to double Yasuo's MR per level and his Q+R? Meanwhile Zed and Talon have 0 MR per level. Just popped into practice tool with both. They both gain MR/level. Oh. But stiiiiillll double MR per level is a pretty hefty buff when they are turning up his Q and R. Hope this doesn't mean my games are going to be filled with the history's most anoying samurai. Yeah, I know dick about mid lane to be able to judge a change like this, just seemed weird to me since I thought I remembered a while back where Riot was like "fuck it, everybody that didn't get MR/level gets it now."
Can I just take a moment to say that Riot's done a shit job at making a samurai? Hell, because of game mechanics, Warlord Shen does a better job of being a samurai than Yasuo.
inb4 Yasuo is a ronin.
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On December 16 2017 02:32 Slusher wrote: A ronin is a samurai But a samurai isn't necessarily a ronin. Squares and rectangles.
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On December 16 2017 02:26 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 01:39 St3MoR wrote: it is a good idea Sent, specially because upgrading without shard is super costly now imho, I think rito are looking into changing that system (my guess would be lesser BE to upgrade cheaper champs) I believe Riot scrapped the plan to reduce the BE cost of upgrading Mastery because of a lack of BE sinks. Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 02:08 Jek wrote:I just want something to use my blue on. I'd be happy for a 10000:1 blue to orange trade. On December 15 2017 22:50 Gahlo wrote:On December 15 2017 17:26 Jek wrote: Did they really need to double Yasuo's MR per level and his Q+R? Meanwhile Zed and Talon have 0 MR per level. Just popped into practice tool with both. They both gain MR/level. Oh. But stiiiiillll double MR per level is a pretty hefty buff when they are turning up his Q and R. Hope this doesn't mean my games are going to be filled with the history's most anoying samurai. Yeah, I know dick about mid lane to be able to judge a change like this, just seemed weird to me since I thought I remembered a while back where Riot was like "fuck it, everybody that didn't get MR/level gets it now." Can I just take a moment to say that Riot's done a shit job at making a samurai? Hell, because of game mechanics, Warlord Shen does a better job of being a samurai than Yasuo. inb4 Yasuo is a ronin. I actually think they did a pretty good job. In a game I'd imagine nearly everyone think of the samurai trope when they think "samurai" ie. lightning fast flashy sword moves rather than the real world's samurai - the heavy armored japanese medieval knight.
Shen is like a real samurai while Yasuo is like the samurai f a n t a s y.
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On December 16 2017 03:00 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 02:26 Gahlo wrote:On December 16 2017 01:39 St3MoR wrote: it is a good idea Sent, specially because upgrading without shard is super costly now imho, I think rito are looking into changing that system (my guess would be lesser BE to upgrade cheaper champs) I believe Riot scrapped the plan to reduce the BE cost of upgrading Mastery because of a lack of BE sinks. On December 16 2017 02:08 Jek wrote:I just want something to use my blue on. I'd be happy for a 10000:1 blue to orange trade. On December 15 2017 22:50 Gahlo wrote:On December 15 2017 17:26 Jek wrote: Did they really need to double Yasuo's MR per level and his Q+R? Meanwhile Zed and Talon have 0 MR per level. Just popped into practice tool with both. They both gain MR/level. Oh. But stiiiiillll double MR per level is a pretty hefty buff when they are turning up his Q and R. Hope this doesn't mean my games are going to be filled with the history's most anoying samurai. Yeah, I know dick about mid lane to be able to judge a change like this, just seemed weird to me since I thought I remembered a while back where Riot was like "fuck it, everybody that didn't get MR/level gets it now." Can I just take a moment to say that Riot's done a shit job at making a samurai? Hell, because of game mechanics, Warlord Shen does a better job of being a samurai than Yasuo. inb4 Yasuo is a ronin. I actually think they did a pretty good job. In a game I'd imagine nearly everyone think of the samurai trope when they think "samurai" ie. lightning fast flashy sword moves rather than the real world's samurai - the heavy armored japanese medieval knight. Shen is like a real samurai while Yasuo is like the samurai f a n t a s y.
Uh, my imagination always painted a samurai just like that, a heavily clad guy who lumbers around chopping peasants to bits because they lack training and don't have armour. I mean, I've always been interested in Japanese culture, so I guess I know more than most, but still. Where would people get those fast flashy sword tropes from?
Does anyone know how good the Aatrox buffs were? He really needs a rework, but I wonder if he's good enough to play for fun and not just insta-lose.
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Just play him enough so your mmr drops to a level where your personal skill can make up for his overall shittiness and you will be fine!
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Where would people get those fast flashy sword tropes from?
Samurais are Asians and Asian warriors have to be like Bruce Lee.
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I would think your average person wouldnt know the difference between a ninja and a samurai.
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On December 16 2017 05:56 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 03:00 Jek wrote:On December 16 2017 02:26 Gahlo wrote:On December 16 2017 01:39 St3MoR wrote: it is a good idea Sent, specially because upgrading without shard is super costly now imho, I think rito are looking into changing that system (my guess would be lesser BE to upgrade cheaper champs) I believe Riot scrapped the plan to reduce the BE cost of upgrading Mastery because of a lack of BE sinks. On December 16 2017 02:08 Jek wrote:I just want something to use my blue on. I'd be happy for a 10000:1 blue to orange trade. On December 15 2017 22:50 Gahlo wrote:On December 15 2017 17:26 Jek wrote: Did they really need to double Yasuo's MR per level and his Q+R? Meanwhile Zed and Talon have 0 MR per level. Just popped into practice tool with both. They both gain MR/level. Oh. But stiiiiillll double MR per level is a pretty hefty buff when they are turning up his Q and R. Hope this doesn't mean my games are going to be filled with the history's most anoying samurai. Yeah, I know dick about mid lane to be able to judge a change like this, just seemed weird to me since I thought I remembered a while back where Riot was like "fuck it, everybody that didn't get MR/level gets it now." Can I just take a moment to say that Riot's done a shit job at making a samurai? Hell, because of game mechanics, Warlord Shen does a better job of being a samurai than Yasuo. inb4 Yasuo is a ronin. I actually think they did a pretty good job. In a game I'd imagine nearly everyone think of the samurai trope when they think "samurai" ie. lightning fast flashy sword moves rather than the real world's samurai - the heavy armored japanese medieval knight. Shen is like a real samurai while Yasuo is like the samurai f a n t a s y. Uh, my imagination always painted a samurai just like that, a heavily clad guy who lumbers around chopping peasants to bits because they lack training and don't have armour. I mean, I've always been interested in Japanese culture, so I guess I know more than most, but still. Where would people get those fast flashy sword tropes from? Popular culture? Nearly all movies, books and myths paint the image of samurai being master swordsmen.
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Yasuo's also supposed to act as a bodyguard. Well I guess "current skillset" Yasuo is "how he evolved to evade assassins" and all that.
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The mastery grading system honestly makes no sense to me. I earned A+ for this, and I wouldn't mind because I lost anyway but everyone else got S.
+ Show Spoiler +ProphecyTman earned an S- on Twisted Fate ChiSeiryu earned an S on Caitlyn maybenotthistime earned an S- on Gnar
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Ez riot also knows it is all the junglers fault
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Yeah, I really wish there was a way to better visualize how/why you got the grade you got.
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Cait got an S with that score because she has an abysmal win rate with high pick rate, which means a lot of people probably have terrible average stats with her.
Khazix is a snowball champion, but sometimes he can't carry even when fed. I've seen quite a few games where he gets a lot of kills but then gets shut down in team fights. He can't split very well, can be locked down and blown up, and he brings no cc. Unless you snowball the rest of the game, he can be pretty useless. And since Rito only looks at KDA and cs and compares it to the average stats of the champ, being 17/6 doesn't translate to an S.
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I can confirm it's really easy to get an S on Cait if do just okay on her (which wasn't easy for me, but now that I have her chest I no longer need to play this shit champion).
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On December 17 2017 11:02 Ansibled wrote:The mastery grading system honestly makes no sense to me. I earned A+ for this, and I wouldn't mind because I lost anyway but everyone else got S. + Show Spoiler +ProphecyTman earned an S- on Twisted Fate ChiSeiryu earned an S on Caitlyn maybenotthistime earned an S- on Gnar
Wow ya,
Usually it's really easy to explain an A+ on an otherwise great game by pointing to low damage or low CS numbers. In your game, however, all of your numbers line up to what I would expect would be an S- or better.
What are some of the deeper stats on that game? Damage to objectives, vision score?
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On December 17 2017 11:02 Ansibled wrote:The mastery grading system honestly makes no sense to me. I earned A+ for this, and I wouldn't mind because I lost anyway but everyone else got S. + Show Spoiler +ProphecyTman earned an S- on Twisted Fate ChiSeiryu earned an S on Caitlyn maybenotthistime earned an S- on Gnar i think cause you only got 1 control ward
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It's relative to other players of the same champ.
Khasii pop off on the regular. On the other hand you play Janna jungle and finish 2-8-12, 50+ cs behind other junket and you'll get S every time.
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On December 19 2017 16:16 iCanada wrote: It's relative to other players of the same champ.
Khasii pop off on the regular. On the other hand you play Janna jungle and finish 2-8-12, 50+ cs behind other junket and you'll get S every time.
I mean it's weighted slightly that way but it doesn't weight that hard lol.
I've played a multitude of off meta champs in different roles and even performing well sometimes I wouldn't get S. And it's not like there are a multitude of guys playing leblanc jungle well.
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LB jungle just isn't troll enough. You have cc, strong duelist skills and multiple aoe clear mechanics. It's not good, but you can easily snowball that pretty hard.
I'm sure someone has snowballed games hard with lb jungle. That's a bad example. The kind if pick I'd take while trolling with my Smurf account and pull out 15 kills with 20cs more than the other jungler.
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Or someone rolled jungle and swapped with mid.
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I don't trust this "year in review" thing. Says I got a pentakill on MF and 0 pentakills in this season total.
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On December 20 2017 03:00 Sent. wrote: I don't trust this "year in review" thing. Says I got a pentakill on MF and 0 pentakills in this season total. When I'm not playing support I only play tanks or Veigar. They say Jax, Irelia and Jayce fit my playstyle....
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yeah I had the same problem with year in review recommendation, last year they recommended me viktor and I liked it, but I'm not interested in playing ADC role and they suggested 2adc...
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On December 20 2017 03:00 Sent. wrote: I don't trust this "year in review" thing. Says I got a pentakill on MF and 0 pentakills in this season total.
It told me I have a 90.6% winrate on fiddlesticks. There is a 0% chance this true. It also told me to play Eve because I play Ivern and Rakan.
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I told me I had about as much average kills as assists as a support main. Something tells me that's not completely correct, unless they count custom games.
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On December 20 2017 04:12 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 03:00 Sent. wrote: I don't trust this "year in review" thing. Says I got a pentakill on MF and 0 pentakills in this season total. When I'm not playing support I only play tanks or Veigar. They say Jax, Irelia and Jayce fit my playstyle.... Those are done by looking at everybody who plays X as their most played and suggest the overall 2nd and 3rd most from those people, according to a Rioter on reddit.
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On December 19 2017 23:51 iCanada wrote: LB jungle just isn't troll enough. You have cc, strong duelist skills and multiple aoe clear mechanics. It's not good, but you can easily snowball that pretty hard.
I'm sure someone has snowballed games hard with lb jungle. That's a bad example. The kind if pick I'd take while trolling with my Smurf account and pull out 15 kills with 20cs more than the other jungler.
Well when I played it it was the old LB, not the current one. So not really much multiple aoe clear mechanics. I just mentioned it since it was one I remembered immediately as one of those games where I had like 1/3 of the team's kills and low deaths and highest damage but still not getting S (https://plays.tv/video/56f89f5018e7b96467/rip-lb-jg?from=user). And I don't think the algorithm for getting S changed since then?
I also didn't get S while 'hard carrying' (aka high KDA and good stats) with:
-Lissandra jg -Soraka jg -Janna jg -etc
and I should get full marks for vision points since I'm a ward whore and always top the vision score, even sometimes higher than supports when I'm playing a different role.
also this:
On September 15 2017 11:26 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 00:42 Jek wrote:On September 09 2017 11:51 lilwisper wrote: I am fairly convinced that the ARAM picker knows exactly what comps it is picking a lot of the time. An assassin team just happens to face a shielding team at random? Riiiiiiiiiight..... Just like how if you roll Malphite it's always against full AP but if it's an opponent you're full AD. >:O Getting S+ on certain champions seem like it require a deathless game but still with a monster score. Got S- on a Janna game with ~20 KDA and 85% KP, I had the audacity to die twice and execute once. Got a A- a few days ago on Janna with these stats: 2/0/10, most wards in game, most pinks in game, most wards cleared in game, doing 1k less damage than enemy mid, enemy jungler. 63% as highest k/p the rest of my team 4/3/1 26% kp, 6/4/3 47% kp, 6/0/1 37% kp, 1/3/5 32% kp. So clearly it was not my team carrying me. Also had only 1k gold less than my adc and jungle in a 25 minute game.
like I know janna is an easy stat boost champ, but my stats in this particular game easily should have been good enough unless the algorithm is retarded enough to not take into the stats relative to the game and ONLY compares to stats from other games not taking into the current game into context at all.
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In my limited experience taking odd champs into the jungle is really hard to get S on because the only other people who do it are one tricks who really know what the are doing. I’ve been playing cho in the jungle recently and I get scores like 6/2/10 and get A-
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mastery ranks are based on how well you do relative to other people playing your character in your role. wards and cs are where people usually fall short.
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I don't think there are many one tricks for lissandra/soraka/janna/etc. jungle and wards/cs I have confidence I am ahead of the curve relative to my rank.
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Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace.
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Is this with or without hunters/manaflow?
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how come i dont see no year in review thing for me. is it only available in certain regions atm
edit: nvm. its on the client i thought it would be on the website like last year and it doesnt load for me anyway. lul
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On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace.
This is, IMO, the S3+ design choice by Riot that has made the jungle much less interesting to me. I just feel like there are dozens of champions that fit the role of "Jungler" aka 3/4th most farm + primary map control champion, that simply cannot clear the jungle. For some its clear speed, for others its clear HP, but I find it to be a bad choice overall because jungle is really the pivot point for the rest of the map (and jungle meta defines top meta in many ways), so that having such a constrained jungle pool constrains picks across the board.
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On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace. Could you perhaps get an early Tiamat to help conserve mana? Later it becomes Titanic
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On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace. Tear and you'll have no mana issues? Muramana Taric is a walking god of death in ARAM at least.
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The year in review thing is hilarious. I have some normals games but apparently it decided to fold in all my bot game stats with everything else... meaning that my mid stats were better than a challenger player's (minus warding).
They also recommended kayn, jhin, and rakan to me. Seems purely like a stunt to get me to buy more champs.
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On December 21 2017 22:54 phyvo wrote: The year in review thing is hilarious. I have some normals games but apparently it decided to fold in all my bot game stats with everything else... meaning that my mid stats were better than a challenger player's (minus warding).
They also recommended kayn, jhin, and rakan to me. Seems purely like a stunt to get me to buy more champs. The best part is seeing the absurd damage/death stat on people that play Viegar in bot games.
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anyone else play klepto ekko its really fun and basically you wind up with a whole item advantage around the time u normal would finish a third item
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Apparently I average 397.3 gpm from the jungle. I rich as hell.
o.O
Only 354.3 GPM from mid tho. Yikes.
On December 20 2017 22:18 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace. Tear and you'll have no mana issues? Muramana Taric is a walking god of death in ARAM at least.
Yeah, Taric is a monster with Muramana. Might fix mana issues and Taric is an admittedly awesome skirmisher, but idea of buying Tear / Boots / Smite item prior to any real combat stats scares me a bit. I'll have to test it out.
On December 20 2017 21:32 Bladeorade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace. Could you perhaps get an early Tiamat to help conserve mana? Later it becomes Titanic
I could see Tiamat being good. TitanicHulk + IBG is likely pretty beast, and I bet Tiamat cancels Q animation too.
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On December 22 2017 14:23 iCanada wrote:Apparently I average 397.3 gpm from the jungle. I rich as hell. o.O Only 354.3 GPM from mid tho. Yikes. Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 22:18 Jek wrote:On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace. Tear and you'll have no mana issues? Muramana Taric is a walking god of death in ARAM at least. Yeah, Taric is a monster with Muramana. Might fix mana issues and Taric is an admittedly awesome skirmisher, but idea of buying Tear / Boots / Smite item prior to any real combat stats scares me a bit. I'll have to test it out. Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 21:32 Bladeorade wrote:On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace. Could you perhaps get an early Tiamat to help conserve mana? Later it becomes Titanic I could see Tiamat being good. TitanicHulk + IBG is likely pretty beast, and I bet Tiamat cancels Q animation too. Yeah could be a similar build to warwick
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On December 22 2017 14:23 iCanada wrote:Apparently I average 397.3 gpm from the jungle. I rich as hell. o.O Only 354.3 GPM from mid tho. Yikes. Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 22:18 Jek wrote:On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace. Tear and you'll have no mana issues? Muramana Taric is a walking god of death in ARAM at least. Yeah, Taric is a monster with Muramana. Might fix mana issues and Taric is an admittedly awesome skirmisher, but idea of buying Tear / Boots / Smite item prior to any real combat stats scares me a bit. I'll have to test it out. Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 21:32 Bladeorade wrote:On December 20 2017 15:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of weird shit in the jungle, Taric is a ridiculously huge blue buff reliance away from being a really really solid jungler. As long as you have mana you clear fast and safely q>aa>aa spam for infinite passive procs, you duel insanely well with the shield + heal + high level passive (clearly sclred to do decent peeling damage as support, you do insane damage without any offensive investment), have strong ganks / 2v2s with shield / stun, actually scale silly well with bruiser items, and are ridiculously useful lategame even when you aren't ahead.
Unfortunately though he consumes ungodly amounts of mana or he'd be a top tier or just below jungle instead of borderline trolling. Legit early game with full mana he kills LeeSin 1v1 at level 3. Late game with an ad build (say warrior, red smite, triforce, steraks/GA) REflash>autoqauto kills an ADC, and then you still have your team invulnerable. And if you need to build tank you're still a beast. So long as you get every blue it's beast as hell. It's funny because junglers like Kha/Lee will think they can kill you, and they roll up to you ahead in cs and levels at full health and die.
Also an unkillable super tank with 3 defensive items first (say cinderhulk, iceborne, visage).
Only works though if you get all the blues. Otherwise you sad and poor. Still good in teamfights even when poor, but feels bad.
Try it some time. It's pretty legit as long as other team doesn't know what's up with Taric jungle. But if you can't keep a blue you'll be poor and get shit on in jungle presence as you fall behind game pace. Could you perhaps get an early Tiamat to help conserve mana? Later it becomes Titanic I could see Tiamat being good. TitanicHulk + IBG is likely pretty beast, and I bet Tiamat cancels Q animation too. Wouldn't Tear sort of be both an offensive and defensive buy just like on Ryze? It allows Taric to more freely spam abilities for heal/shield/stun resets and passive procs.
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100% winrate on Tear Taric jungle it felt strong but I got hard carried so idk if it was strong, you do stack it super fast clearing with q spam.
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On December 23 2017 13:53 Slusher wrote: 100% winrate on Tear Taric jungle it felt strong but I got hard carried so idk if it was strong, you do stack it super fast clearing with q spam.
Is it enough to keep you topped up? Did you try it machete+faerie start?
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On December 20 2017 03:00 Sent. wrote: I don't trust this "year in review" thing. Says I got a pentakill on MF and 0 pentakills in this season total.
ARAM?
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On December 23 2017 17:47 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2017 13:53 Slusher wrote: 100% winrate on Tear Taric jungle it felt strong but I got hard carried so idk if it was strong, you do stack it super fast clearing with q spam. Is it enough to keep you topped up? Did you try it machete+faerie start?
I figured attack speed didn't matter that much since Q is a Psuedo attack reset, so I opened talisman+Refill and just did full clear into tear nothing special. I ran aftershock with manaflow/Trancendence and I also went straight frozen heart off of cinderhulk, but their only ap was galio so I could do whatever. The plan was to go Heart into Visage, with the 10% from the talent itself. then maybe finish off with locket or even ardent would be pretty good since I have aoe application and get adaptive damage of it.
But what happened was my midlaner got a penta kill so I killed baron with like 2000 gold so I just decided to finish Muramana because why not it was already stacked, and then we ended the game with baron, all I had was cinderhulk muramana and frozen heart.
But because manaflow band is based off of mana pool, once you have a casual glacial + Tear you can give away blue np
to be clear their midlaner was useless so I could kinda do whatever I wanted so I don't think it's the best game to tell how good it is.
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Even if Taric was a good jungler building tear would be garbage.
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On December 24 2017 02:30 Ansibled wrote: Even if Taric was a good jungler building tear would be garbage. Somebody haven't seen a full build Muramana Taric going 1v5.
On a champion that absolutely need a high mana pool when fighting you shouldn't be that dismissive of it. I suppose another alternative could be going 2x Crystal for a faster Iceborn?
I guess Tear is if you suspect the game to go long. Tear->Muramana sort of make Taric a melee version of Ryze with more emphasis on being unkillable than burst damage.
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for some reason I thought his passive scaled on mana, tbh I probably wouldn't have tried it had I known.
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On December 24 2017 02:58 Slusher wrote: for some reason I thought his passive scaled on mana, tbh I probably wouldn't have tried it had I known. It did a long time ago (before rework), but he turned out to be grotesquely overpowered so they made it scale off armor iirc.
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I'll try again with tiamat,
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Not having read the discussion chain, I assume IBG is in there somewhere.
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Making the idea of jungle Taric work is what really impresses me about this forum. This is so interesting to read.
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RE: Taric Jungle; Tear troll as hell though from jungle. Feels bad. I didn't test out Tiamat in an actual game, but in my clear runs, felt pretty good. I think if you just build whatever with a Frostfang right away you pretty ok.
Speaking of which, frostfang is OP as balls on any jungler that needs mana / uses AP. Another 60 damage in ganks is nuts, and it pays for itself despite being gold efficient as hell right when you buy it without the charge procs, but then you also get the procs, and it pays for itself in 10 minutes easily. Its close to old-school HOG from the jungle. Busted. You basicallyt get to buy two DRings, then sell them later for full price, and in the mean time its probably more gold efficient than whatever else you wanted.
That said, you get Manamune online with Taric in game, you quickly become LoL's only DotA style melee carry. Like 500 damage auto attacks that are 50/50 physical/Magic with 1.9 attacks per second, 4k HP w/ 200 Armor & MR, and a consistent 600 damage shield w/ a heal for 120 HP every other second. Pretty gross. I just don't think you can avoid combat stats for that long, and even if you fed or being carried it is kind of a win-more choice. If you fed easier to just get bruiser items, press R, and run it down mid killing everything in their path. If you being carried just buy support items and let them run it down mid (hopefully killing everything in their path. LOL)
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Do you sell frostfang later on, or upgrade into queen's claim to get the spooky ghosts and keep the 50% move speed on hit?
On the subject of AP junglers, is new eve enough better than elise that it's worth learning eve if I already play elise?
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On December 30 2017 02:17 General_Winter wrote: Do you sell frostfang later on, or upgrade into queen's claim to get the spooky ghosts and keep the 50% move speed on hit?
On the subject of AP junglers, is new eve enough better than elise that it's worth learning eve if I already play elise? You sell Frostfange later. FQC doesn't have the stat value needed for a jungler.
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Starting to see this casual frostfang a lot. 0 question in my mind how riot will react.
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On December 30 2017 04:17 Slusher wrote: Starting to see this casual frostfang a lot. 0 question in my mind how riot will react. I'm guessing adding monsters to the lockout timer, at least.
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On December 30 2017 02:17 General_Winter wrote: Do you sell frostfang later on, or upgrade into queen's claim to get the spooky ghosts and keep the 50% move speed on hit?
On the subject of AP junglers, is new eve enough better than elise that it's worth learning eve if I already play elise?
I keep it as long as I can, basically till I need a pink ward slot or you want another CDR item. The Movespeed quest bonus is pretty freakling awesome as a jungler, on Eve in particular it has saved my life many many times, and let me chase down kills a similar number of times. Spooky ghost would be cool, but FQC isn't really gold efficient. You could spend that gold instead on say a haunting guise, get 5 less AP, but the magic pen and 200 HP.
Eve is waay better than Elise right now in soloqueue, but they are way different junglers. I would compare new Eve to BW mutas harass marines; you just always staying a little out of reach and out of sight, but lurking like a shark smelling blood in the water ready to pounce and snipe a squishy that paths a little out of the way, where as Elise is just a real meat and potatoes jungler, you can just kind of group to seige or teamfight. Eve can't really do either, but she can lurk behind the other team, get in, and ult out... which in solo queue means your team then engages 4v2 as 2 people chase you down after you ulted away. She can also dive really well, so if you have a strong tank "seiging" isn't necessarily bad.
Probably takes 20 to 30 games to get used to playing Eve, its weird. Its kind of nice practice for a tank player actually, really sharpens your "go button" imo.
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Ok. So Udyr has a top 2 / top 3 winrate in most regions. And he has held that for a few weeks by this point.
What gives? I know I remarked that the last buff they gave him was pretty big from a stat perspective, but the boost in win rates seems delayed so it’s hard to connect. Is this a response to some meta shift?
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Udyr's pick rate has only marginally increased between this patch and the previous one, so it would appear that the people who main him have been enjoying higher win rates. According to op.gg, he has the highest jungle win rate between minutes 25-30, which is when he has TF and his tank item, making him a strong, tanky duelist. That has pretty much always been Udyr's time to shine, he tries to get fed early or farms super hard to become that mid game split pushing threat. The champions that sport good win rates against him are Jax and Trundle, split pushers that pretty much outscale Udyr, and thus negate that power.
My guess for the delay is simply that people have gotten the hang of Udyr again. His winrate is not exactly sky high even though he has the 2nd/3rd highest jungle winrate.
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Hes one of few champions who still have good clear in this season.
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At a basic glance he seems to have been hit harder by the rune changes than other junglers, so I don't know whether that's necessarily true. Also there are still a lot of junglers who clear very well who're suffering in winrate right now, Kayn and Olaf are the first two that come to mind for me here. The increase in winrate was after patch 7.21, which was the patch where he got buffed and Ardent got nerfed. After 7.21 we saw more engage/melee supports rather than supports that can kite very well, so that also explains his increase in winrate.
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United States37500 Posts
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