[Patch 7.15] Urgot General Discussion - Page 7
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States34965 Posts
On August 02 2017 05:13 Slusher wrote: I don't think mid can ever not be op based on location. Case in point the role isn't even considered weak when stuff like lulu karma and zilian are being played. Riot's game design is also a lot more favorable to AP champions | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On August 02 2017 05:21 Gahlo wrote: Riot's game design is also a lot more favorable to AP champions I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori. | ||
Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori. I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item. | ||
Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On August 02 2017 06:31 DarkCore wrote: Tarzaned is really good, but listening to his stream with all the whining and dripping sarcasm is tiring, honestly not surprised he made that reddit thread. It's interesting that he doesn't play Lee Sin and still made it so far up the ladder, proof that you don't actually need to be a Lee god to dominate soloQ (except now his own champion pool has been nerfed). I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item. Yes for sure. Like what slushey said, the short lane means there isn't a "requirement" for viability like there are for the jungle and top. Although, waveclear is a sort of bar, and its a shame that champs like Ryze and Leblanc have continued to be reworked into reliable waveclearers when that was kind of the charm of them. | ||
Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On August 02 2017 06:31 DarkCore wrote: Tarzaned is really good, but listening to his stream with all the whining and dripping sarcasm is tiring, honestly not surprised he made that reddit thread. It's interesting that he doesn't play Lee Sin and still made it so far up the ladder, proof that you don't actually need to be a Lee god to dominate soloQ (except now his own champion pool has been nerfed). I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item. i mean the guy is literally a worse version of xj9 | ||
kongoline
6318 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The proof that catch-up XP isn't nearly as strong as they make it out to be is that mid lane XP is usually much closer despite much more dramatic differentials. For example, in LZ v KT game 2, Crumbz was all over the catchup XP and how Score was "only" 2 levels up on Cuzz despite being 1/0/4 to 0/3/1 and 126 to 52 CS. When meanwhile the 3-0-4 Pawn and the 0-1-0 Bdd were the same level for most of the game despite major KDA/CS advantages for Pawn. | ||
Slusher
United States19143 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + TL played Vayne in LCS | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/08/champion-reveal-ornn-fire-below-mountain.html | ||
Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 07 2017 14:33 GrandInquisitor wrote: The whole catch-up XP meme is very misleading. Without getting into why catch-up XP is super necessary for the game (which VA already got into), there's a bunch of unintelligent people that are conflating catch-up XP with 1) jungle CS, which has never accurately predicted XP gained, and 2) the fact that level differentials naturally shrink over time because of the increased XP required to level up. If you gain a 500 XP advantage over your opponent, that's nearly a 2 level lead at the start of a game, and less than a third of a level lead by the end of the game. The proof that catch-up XP isn't nearly as strong as they make it out to be is that mid lane XP is usually much closer despite much more dramatic differentials. For example, in LZ v KT game 2, Crumbz was all over the catchup XP and how Score was "only" 2 levels up on Cuzz despite being 1/0/4 to 0/3/1 and 126 to 52 CS. When meanwhile the 3-0-4 Pawn and the 0-1-0 Bdd were the same level for most of the game despite major KDA/CS advantages for Pawn. I think it's just the new flavour of the mouth thing to complain about. People latch on to a certain "flaw" and then try rationalize everything in terms of that even if it doesn't make much sense. League is actually very punishing for teams that fall behind. Items don't lose efficiency with gold, stats scale in a non-linear fashion some roles and there are very few ways to fight through a gold disadvantage due to homogeneous power curves. If they removed comeback mechanics it would just mean that the only phase of the game that matters is the very first one. Dota in contrast is actually fairly forgiving compared to league. Items lose gold efficiency while gaining slot efficiency, power curves aren't homogeneous, initiation is far stronger, vision avoidance is stronger etc. I disliked the overall trend of removing individual's ability to impact the game over the team element that they trended towards throughout the seasons but I do think they doing a much better job of balancing. Last year(or was it year before) I recall how utterly powerless I felt in the game as it just always tended to 1 big teamfight into lose or defeat and nothing else mattered. This fad will blow over, hell it might have blown over already lol. | ||
DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
I've never been a jungle main, but imo the nice thing about catch up XP is that it evens out the difference in power between heavy gankers and farming champs. It means that if Lee does nothing but gank, while Yi does nothing but farm, neither is going to find themselves at a major lv advantage, both are viable ways to play the game. | ||
geript
10024 Posts
On August 08 2017 03:32 AsmodeusXI wrote: Well this one is going to be interesting: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/08/champion-reveal-ornn-fire-below-mountain.html Yah, he looks pretty insane. Interested to see what exactly his abilities are. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On August 08 2017 05:40 DarkCore wrote: The ones who complain seem to be those who have played the game long enough to remember the days when counter jungling was introduced and was a big thing. The days of S2 Shyv and Lee , who legit lived in the enemy jungle and would destroy games when they got ahead because the enemy jungler became irrelevant. Riot spent a good few years trying to get the jungle sorted out, remember all the items they released to try and constant adjusting of how jungle creeps work? Not to mention adding jungle camps precisely to prevent champions from being zoned from their own jungle (less camps mean it's easier to deny when ahead). I've never been a jungle main, but imo the nice thing about catch up XP is that it evens out the difference in power between heavy gankers and farming champs. It means that if Lee does nothing but gank, while Yi does nothing but farm, neither is going to find themselves at a major lv advantage, both are viable ways to play the game. Its funny that you point out this because in S2, before all the changes, just camping solo lanes with GP5 items was the dominant jungler paradigm at the highest levels for a long time. | ||
Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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