Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
You can now buy +40 Flat Armour Penetration on AD Assassins before Black Cleaver, with 195 AD tacked on for less than 10k gold. Heck you could probably get these items on stuff like Draven too.
DFG for AD damage. I wonder what could go wrong...
with everything I have read about this item it's gonna be like a hotfix type of issue. Got to say I'm pretty interested I'm probably gonna skip to much work for league tomorrow =-(
On February 10 2016 11:13 MoonBear wrote: You can now buy +40 Flat Armour Penetration on AD Assassins before Black Cleaver, with 195 AD tacked on for less than 10k gold. Heck you could probably get these items on stuff like Draven too.
DFG for AD damage. I wonder what could go wrong...
an 8 from masteries and 19 from runes is also possible, add 10 if you get bored with a rando shiv and that's 77/49% possible without BC/built in pen.
They haven't really been playing him much but the champ is really fucking good. If I wasnt a support main trying out the 1 trick thing this season I would be playing him. Like the damage is just insane it blows my mind how few people play him. Every time I see the talon 1 tricks they just shit on kids.
I guess he is kinda sleeper for some reason. Ye his lane is very weak pre 6 but if you aren't too far behind he more than makes up for it.
His biggest power is he is an assasins who is actually difficult to exhaust and focus unlike pretty much all others.
On February 10 2016 11:44 nafta wrote: They haven't really been playing him much but the champ is really fucking good. If I wasnt a support main trying out the 1 trick thing this season I would be playing him. Like the damage is just insane it blows my mind how few people play him. Every time I see the talon 1 tricks they just shit on kids.
I guess he is kinda sleeper for some reason. Ye his lane is very weak pre 6 but if you aren't too far behind he more than makes up for it.
His biggest power is he is an assasins who is actually difficult to exhaust and focus unlike pretty much all others.
Talon is my drunk pick. Are you saying I can get over 50% this patch?
Even without the stealth honestly. What other assassins is actually difficult to exhaust? The only other one is kassadin and he can't really compare until lategame with the burst. Even someone like lb is very easy to flash exh if not in position.
Well even in champion.gg he is 2nd highest winrate with 3.85% pick rate before the new item so I guess he isn't that sleeper.
On February 10 2016 11:13 MoonBear wrote: You can now buy +40 Flat Armour Penetration on AD Assassins before Black Cleaver, with 195 AD tacked on for less than 10k gold. Heck you could probably get these items on stuff like Draven too.
DFG for AD damage. I wonder what could go wrong...
TL;DR what we ban now? Seems like Graves got hit a bit with numbers, Poppy got tuned down as well. The new AD item looks.... I can't even comment this one. Imma probably keep banning all AD assassins mid, like Zed and company.
Also from PBE :
[NEW MECHANIC] "If Starcall damages a champion, Soraka gains Alignment, resturing up to 30-90 (+ 40% AP) health and 20-60 (+20% AP) mana over 5 seconds.
Well boys, hypercarries are well and truly dead. Assassins buffed, early dragons buffed and turrets are still paper mache piñata?
GG.
You guys looking forward to lux Viktor 45 mins 0 action crapfests every pro game for the next month with a sum total of 4 ADCs? I know I am. How could I not be after 4 weeks of it already?
Vayne/Riven/Yasuo/Twitch are extra donezo than last patch especially.
Maybe we could get Leona and Gragas again though. And maybe kog if he's obscenely broken or something.
Man I hate the paper mache turrets and 20 min inhibs every gam metagame rn. Oh and Talon and Akali buffs because leagues lowest counter play assasins both needed love. 53% win rate on a brain dead hero wasn't enough I guess in the case of Talon.
I expect viktor at least to fall off a bit. EZ and graves will still be strong and he is good with them. But he isn't good with any of the other meta ADs besides trist*. He likes to play with hypercarries. And he is weak to assassins in general so buffing them should make it harder on him.
* he isn't bad with corki Iirc but that is just a function of how strong corki is right now and less a function of how well they work together.
Had a jungle Gragas last game that went Runic echoes -> RoA -> Tank. He was pretty useless because he didn't land his skills but in theory it could be a pretty decent build.
I really wish Riot would actually use the pre-season to introduce controversial items like this. Haven't seen the item in action now, but if it turns out to be a similiar disaster like the reworked Black Cleaver, then both ranked and pro play will suffer greatly from it.
I can only play tomorrow, so I'm eagerly refreshing this thread and reddit to see the clash of "gg riot, the game is unplayable" vs. "this item is fine, and here's why:[...]'.
As for Talon, he has been still incredibly strong in the right hands. Some people can play him with such ease... Luckily, the last time I met a Talon like this, he was in my team, so while I was browsing my shop, trying to decide what to buy, he basically won the game on his own.
On February 10 2016 22:06 Volband wrote: I really wish Riot would actually use the pre-season to introduce controversial items like this. Haven't seen the item in action now, but if it turns out to be a similiar disaster like the reworked Black Cleaver, then both ranked and pro play will suffer greatly from it.
I can only play tomorrow, so I'm eagerly refreshing this thread and reddit to see the clash of "gg riot, the game is unplayable" vs. "this item is fine, and here's why:[...]'.
As for Talon, he has been still incredibly strong in the right hands. Some people can play him with such ease... Luckily, the last time I met a Talon like this, he was in my team, so while I was browsing my shop, trying to decide what to buy, he basically won the game on his own.
How are you gonna see the item in your games when you AFK after 5 minutes?
ugh I'm pretty disappointed with the dragon change. sure it became a bit more valuable to take but not enough incentive to go for the drags when you can just take towers. teams will be more wary of the other teams taking drags, but I don't see them exactly picking comps revolved around dragon control ever (RIP RUMBLE)
new assassin item.. think the timings a bit weird. assassins are already in a good spot right now and seeing how assassins weren't nerfed in other ways besides zed, I can see league of assassins happening again.
and fuck there are way too many things to ban right now. can we have more bans please?
We've been asking for draft change for years now. They even put in this whole new interface for champ select but didn't change drafting so I highly doubt they will in the foreseeable future, maybe they never will unless something drastic happens like most of their team getting fired.
On February 10 2016 22:06 Volband wrote: I really wish Riot would actually use the pre-season to introduce controversial items like this. Haven't seen the item in action now, but if it turns out to be a similiar disaster like the reworked Black Cleaver, then both ranked and pro play will suffer greatly from it.
I can only play tomorrow, so I'm eagerly refreshing this thread and reddit to see the clash of "gg riot, the game is unplayable" vs. "this item is fine, and here's why:[...]'.
As for Talon, he has been still incredibly strong in the right hands. Some people can play him with such ease... Luckily, the last time I met a Talon like this, he was in my team, so while I was browsing my shop, trying to decide what to buy, he basically won the game on his own.
How are you gonna see the item in your games when you AFK after 5 minutes?
Being afk is basically a slightly worse spectator mode, so I will see everything just fine, thanks. :D
On February 10 2016 22:06 Volband wrote: I really wish Riot would actually use the pre-season to introduce controversial items like this. Haven't seen the item in action now, but if it turns out to be a similiar disaster like the reworked Black Cleaver, then both ranked and pro play will suffer greatly from it.
I can only play tomorrow, so I'm eagerly refreshing this thread and reddit to see the clash of "gg riot, the game is unplayable" vs. "this item is fine, and here's why:[...]'.
As for Talon, he has been still incredibly strong in the right hands. Some people can play him with such ease... Luckily, the last time I met a Talon like this, he was in my team, so while I was browsing my shop, trying to decide what to buy, he basically won the game on his own.
How are you gonna see the item in your games when you AFK after 5 minutes?
Being afk is basically a slightly worse spectator mode, so I will see everything just fine, thanks. :D
Wow, Hearthstone and spectating at the same time? Such multitasking.
On February 10 2016 22:06 Volband wrote: I really wish Riot would actually use the pre-season to introduce controversial items like this. Haven't seen the item in action now, but if it turns out to be a similiar disaster like the reworked Black Cleaver, then both ranked and pro play will suffer greatly from it.
I can only play tomorrow, so I'm eagerly refreshing this thread and reddit to see the clash of "gg riot, the game is unplayable" vs. "this item is fine, and here's why:[...]'.
As for Talon, he has been still incredibly strong in the right hands. Some people can play him with such ease... Luckily, the last time I met a Talon like this, he was in my team, so while I was browsing my shop, trying to decide what to buy, he basically won the game on his own.
How are you gonna see the item in your games when you AFK after 5 minutes?
Being afk is basically a slightly worse spectator mode, so I will see everything just fine, thanks. :D
Wow, Hearthstone and spectating at the same time? Such multitasking.
For all you know, I might play secret pally, so the HS side of things could be done in mere seconds. But I'm not THAT evil of a person, so at least I refused crafting MC.
Quite funny though that the one HS game I wanted to play while just pretending to be afk (like people who say afk, quit the game, then immediately reconnect) I got an instawin, because that priest was probably trying to farm rank 20 for a golden portrait. Like, hello, stop ruining my plans!
Seeing how broken or non-broken the new item will be hard anyway. Obviously, as even the thread's title suggests, everyone is going to be Zed in the coming hours, so we will see 10-0 and 0-10 Zeds.
On February 10 2016 22:58 Disengaged wrote: Wonder how the "zed like" item is on Nasus with lots of stacks :O
Probably pretty bad, since you just blow people up about as fast anyway.
Yea, but you could blow them up even faster :O
No faster than any other damage item. Nasus doesn't need to wait around for the proc to go off, you should be able to kill them with Qs far before that damage pop.
I tried it with fio, its kinda odd because it's a passive and not an active so it's not as easy to pick targets. The people I used it one blew the fuck up. But I'm pretty sure they would have anyways. Seemed strong but I'm not sure if it was item or fio.
On February 10 2016 22:58 Disengaged wrote: Wonder how the "zed like" item is on Nasus with lots of stacks :O
Probably pretty bad, since you just blow people up about as fast anyway.
Yea, but you could blow them up even faster :O
No faster than any other damage item. Nasus doesn't need to wait around for the proc to go off, you should be able to kill them with Qs far before that damage pop.
Nasus is one of my mains so I know how it is. Its just that I think it'd be pretty funny getting 1 or maybe 2 Q's off before it procs and just walking away to do something else. Like one of those "Cool guys don't look at explosions" moments. Zed already does that, but would be funny if the big dog could do it too lol
Most likely won't happen, but still, a man can dream.
On February 10 2016 22:58 Disengaged wrote: Wonder how the "zed like" item is on Nasus with lots of stacks :O
Probably pretty bad, since you just blow people up about as fast anyway.
Yea, but you could blow them up even faster :O
No faster than any other damage item. Nasus doesn't need to wait around for the proc to go off, you should be able to kill them with Qs far before that damage pop.
Nasus is one of my mains so I know how it is. Its just that I think it'd be pretty funny getting 1 or maybe 2 Q's off before it procs and just walking away to do something else. Like one of those "Cool guys don't look at explosions" moments. Zed already does that, but would be funny if the big dog could do it too lol
Most likely won't happen, but still, a man can dream.
Yeah, that was my thought there. Saves you the trouble of actually having to stick to your target. You touch them, get CC'd, take hands off your keyboard so you can light up cig put on shades and watch them explode.
Wouldnt it not work on nasus anyways unless you watch the 120s cd and time it or hit a super squishy target? It starts off your first auto and detonates in 2s so unless you get them to like sub 30% health with 1q it doesnt even really work.
I wanna try it on darius lol. Pull, auto w aareset q ulti pop dead Or glass cannon lane lee sin since he lacks a bit of the oomph in his allins
problem is deaths dance already exists which is far far better on nasus. the damage reduction and that healing off Qs are much better if you want a funny AD item
visage + DD + masteries/innate nasus sustain is lolz, every Q heals you for like 3/4th your hp. if other team doesnt have burst gl
it doesn't *really* matter that this item is "ad" themed. you can build it on ap champs as well, because it's still 90 + 25% missing hp. less efficient since you the stats don't add to your combo buuuuuuut if you're a champ that autos with some frequency or has an aa reset maybe?
if this works it just confirms that this is the dumbest item ever
On February 11 2016 01:15 ticklishmusic wrote: it doesn't *really* matter that this item is "ad" themed. you can build it on ap champs as well, because it's still 90 + 25% missing hp. less efficient since you the stats don't add to your combo buuuuuuut if you're a champ that autos with some frequency or has an aa reset maybe?
if this works it just confirms that this is the dumbest item ever
It is bad on them too. You can't spend that much gold on an item with so much arpen+ad as an ap champ. Just look at how rarely zhonya is bought even though it gives armor and a godly active on ad champs.
I'm going to take a step back from my personal frustration with this patch to avoid hyperbole. Its a really shitty time for all the champs that I like playing
Anywho, Lee is really good right now. So is Noct by my first guess. Duskblade gives Lee the ability to 2 item then transition straight into tank while still feeling good that he will contribute damage - the way I see it duskblade really rewards high precision and the ability to save it for when you need it and no one really does that better than Lee.
Also I could totally see it on Akali, as if a whole targeted ability kit wasn't enough, lets give her a conditional execute too. Why not. Not that she really can use it to snowball effectively imo, that's probably best done with Zhon or sommat like that. But what do I know, I have no games on Akali because I think shes terribly designed and not much fun so someone else I guess can tackle that one.
I'm unsure if the item will fight the whole game enough to make the game not the exact same but with poke champs buying the duskblade. but it's an item that will never be healthy unless it dead ends as a cheap item.
dirk + 600-900 gold for the same passive and 20 AD kind of cheap dead end.
Honestly while very good this item is being so fucking overrated by the community. Everyone goes zhonya and qss vs assassins anyway it really will not make everything else unplayable lol.
Also highly recommend kayle to people interested in some other sleeper picks. Even without the whole assassins shit she just does so much fucking dmg. Nashor/rageblade+w/e you want.
On February 11 2016 01:45 nafta wrote: Honestly while very good this item is being so fucking overrated by the community. Everyone goes zhonya and qss vs assassins anyway it really will not make everything else unplayable lol.
Also highly recommend kayle to people interested in some other sleeper picks. Even without the whole assassins shit she just does so much fucking dmg. Nashor/rageblade+w/e you want.
Next patch: We noticed that Zhonya's Hourglass and QSS were really good against our beloved new item which we spent a lot of time designing. Err, it's also good at a lot of other stuff. So, now Zhonya's costs 500 more gold, has 20 less armor and QSS has it's cost increased by 2000 and provides no MR. Oh, and cooldowns are now doubled.
regardless of how good or bad this item is (hint its really good)
This will be one of those troll patches like league of cleavers or 420 weedwick that you look back at later and shake your head. its going to be a shitty 2 weeks of league
You'd think Rito learns from their mistakes, and release brand new items a bit underpowered, rather than overpowered. At least it's been a while that they released a new champion in such a broken state as Diana was.
As a rule of thumb, you want to release your stuff overpowered because this way people will want to use it, and that'll give you more information about how to balance it. I'm certain there's less data about Illaoi than Kindred or Tahm Kench, regardless of how straightforward their levers for balance are.
On February 11 2016 03:49 Alaric wrote: As a rule of thumb, you want to release your stuff overpowered because this way people will want to use it, and that'll give you more information about how to balance it. I'm certain there's less data about Illaoi than Kindred or Tahm Kench, regardless of how straightforward their levers for balance are.
PBE exists for a reason Alaric. And all reports out of PBE were that this item is broken.
That's why I said "rule of thumb", and in response to Volband saying they should release stuff underpowered. Now, to teach them the difference between slightly and grossly... I wouldn't be surprised if Riot did it on purpose so they could decide whose assassins' kits they'd smack down, while leaving the item untouched, for the purpose of "tuning."
On February 11 2016 03:49 Alaric wrote: As a rule of thumb, you want to release your stuff overpowered because this way people will want to use it, and that'll give you more information about how to balance it. I'm certain there's less data about Illaoi than Kindred or Tahm Kench, regardless of how straightforward their levers for balance are.
PBE exists for a reason Alaric. And all reports out of PBE were that this item is broken.
Might I ask what reason PBE exists for? Every bug that gets reported there seems to make its way to live anyway. Any broken item that gets reports still makes it to live anyway as well. It doesn't seem to have a function from what I can gather.
No fuckin idea man. You're going to have to ask Riot, because contrary to the popular belief that Riot has no idea what they're doing, Riot knows exactly what they're doing.
On February 11 2016 04:08 Lost My Will To Live wrote:
On February 11 2016 03:49 Alaric wrote: As a rule of thumb, you want to release your stuff overpowered because this way people will want to use it, and that'll give you more information about how to balance it. I'm certain there's less data about Illaoi than Kindred or Tahm Kench, regardless of how straightforward their levers for balance are.
PBE exists for a reason Alaric. And all reports out of PBE were that this item is broken.
Might I ask what reason PBE exists for? Every bug that gets reported there seems to make its way to live anyway. Any broken item that gets reports still makes it to live anyway as well. It doesn't seem to have a function from what I can gather.
On February 11 2016 06:04 Slusher wrote: pbe exists for client crashing bugs only
Pretty much this. Anything that doesn't make the client crash or make a champion unplayable isn't a priority.
I used to heavily test stuff on the PBE to hunt for bugs, especially with season patches, but lost interest after zero of the bugs I painstakingly documented got fixed. My best guess is they have a planned release schedule and they won't delay for anything short of game-breaking.
Balance is just a crap shoot. Very few players play on the PBE consistently enough for MMR to measure anything, so matches are almost always horribly lopsided. Trying to judge balance off the PBE would be like trying to extrapolate the results of an election from a precinct with 1 voter who forget to vote.
dominion was fun until the queue got to be 40 minutes and each game had the same 7-8 champs, i was pretty high ranked for dominion 2 season ago going off queue time. :/
tbh i didn't mind the champ selection part, but having a queue longer than a game was a little ridiculous.
if 0.5% of 70M MAU's played Dominion, that's still 350K players. i also think the number used to be higher, but it's really riot's fault that it dropped by not providing any meaningful support for the game mode and letting it go into a death spiral.
On February 11 2016 06:37 ticklishmusic wrote: but it's really riot's fault that it dropped by not providing any meaningful support for the game mode and letting it go into a death spiral.
So true. How can you expect the players to care when you won't care yourself? Everytime they can, they shove Poro King/All-For-One/URF down our throats, they could have done more for Dominion.
It's funny how the fast food industry has had a few successes in making some items more popular by putting them on the limited time list. I believe the McRib is a great example.
On February 11 2016 06:52 lilwisper wrote: It's funny how the fast food industry has had a few successes in making some items more popular by putting them on the limited time list. I believe the McRib is a great example.
McRib is a poor example because it's tied to the price of pork. it comes out limited when pork prices are declining, so they can maximize profits on the item. The Shamrock shake would be a better example from Mcdonalds. it's much more popular than their regular shakes, and yet it's pretty much the same thing.
Pantheon is hilarious with this item, every part of it is so good on him, just have to make sure to get the auto attack in in the middle or end of your combo I've been blowing up people through steraks and other shields all day
On February 11 2016 06:56 bbc23 wrote: Pantheon is hilarious with this item, every part of it is so good on him, just have to make sure to get the auto attack in in the middle or end of your combo I've been blowing up people through steraks and other shields all day
He was already incredibly strong, maybe the strongest AD solo laner outside of graves, and it definitely is just another item for him.
On February 11 2016 06:37 ticklishmusic wrote: but it's really riot's fault that it dropped by not providing any meaningful support for the game mode and letting it go into a death spiral.
So true. How can you expect the players to care when you won't care yourself? Everytime they can, they shove Poro King/All-For-One/URF down our throats, they could have done more for Dominion.
the reason poro king and other limited modes exist is because nobody played dominion or twisted treeline.
On February 11 2016 06:37 ticklishmusic wrote: but it's really riot's fault that it dropped by not providing any meaningful support for the game mode and letting it go into a death spiral.
So true. How can you expect the players to care when you won't care yourself? Everytime they can, they shove Poro King/All-For-One/URF down our throats, they could have done more for Dominion.
You have an odd definition of "shoving [___] down our throats". It sounds like a lot of stuff gets shoved down your throat pretty regularly, if all you mean is that someone is providing you optional access to them. If you know what I mean.
On February 11 2016 06:37 ticklishmusic wrote: but it's really riot's fault that it dropped by not providing any meaningful support for the game mode and letting it go into a death spiral.
So true. How can you expect the players to care when you won't care yourself? Everytime they can, they shove Poro King/All-For-One/URF down our throats, they could have done more for Dominion.
You have an odd definition of "shoving [___] down our throats". It sounds like a lot of stuff gets shoved down your throat pretty regularly, if all you mean is that someone is providing you optional access to them. If you know what I mean.
Shove down throat is wrong. It just generally feels like Riot has been more excited talking about those modes over Dominion. All I remember hearing for Dominion is one or two item updates over the 4 years its been live (I'm sure there is more but I never followed Dominion).
There was item variants and very minor Dominion only balancing. Nothing significant. Dominion has been around, I believe, since season 2. It may be a failure, but it isn't like they did anything to support it.
so whats general consensus over new champion select, i just played my first game and the fact i can choose my role is great but everything else seems like a downgrade, harder to see more confusing and seems like a chore to sit thought entire champion select
On February 11 2016 06:37 ticklishmusic wrote: but it's really riot's fault that it dropped by not providing any meaningful support for the game mode and letting it go into a death spiral.
So true. How can you expect the players to care when you won't care yourself? Everytime they can, they shove Poro King/All-For-One/URF down our throats, they could have done more for Dominion.
You have an odd definition of "shoving [___] down our throats". It sounds like a lot of stuff gets shoved down your throat pretty regularly, if all you mean is that someone is providing you optional access to them. If you know what I mean.
Shove down throat is wrong. It just generally feels like Riot has been more excited talking about those modes over Dominion. All I remember hearing for Dominion is one or two item updates over the 4 years its been live (I'm sure there is more but I never followed Dominion).
And there's a pretty good reason why: those modes were fun and refreshed people's enjoyment of League in the two or so weeks they were live. By comparison, Dominion was objectively shitty, as measured by the fact that no one played it. Sure, it did have some fans, as all objectively shitty things do. Some people liked vanilla Starcraft over Brood War, too.
Dominion stopped being popular long before Riot stopped supporting it. I agree that Riot's not supporting Dominion didn't help. But people made it clear very early on that Dominion could not and did not hold their interest. At this point, a 5% improvement in the Summoner's Rift experience will mean a lot more to a lot more people than even a 50% improvement in the Dominion experience.
Today's announcement isn't sad or tragic or depressing. It's overdue.
On February 11 2016 08:41 kongoline wrote: so whats general consensus over new champion select, i just played my first game and the fact i can choose my role is great but everything else seems like a downgrade, harder to see more confusing and seems like a chore to sit thought entire champion select
the whole interface is crap and needs to be redesigned or reverted
On February 11 2016 08:41 kongoline wrote: so whats general consensus over new champion select, i just played my first game and the fact i can choose my role is great but everything else seems like a downgrade, harder to see more confusing and seems like a chore to sit thought entire champion select
TL;DR of an exchange: "Yeah, this new champ select sucks. The way they moved stuff around and changed box sizes actually reduces "clarity" as they say and they even shoved the chat box in a corner while saying it's about communicating. - I don't get why you guys complain. It's so cool and great! Everything's super slick and shiny! - Well. Do you mean "great" from a graphical or a functional viewpoint? :> - Graphical of course, I don't care about the rest. Wow it's so pretty!"
(She's the one who only posts about new skins to comment on whether she finds them pretty or not and will buy them or not, so it's kinda cliched, but hey, she's representative of a good portion of the playerbase too. )
On February 11 2016 08:45 dsyxelic wrote: now that they cut the wait time a lot more I like it alot.
only wish they would make it so first 3 picks got to ban since going first sucks (counter pick).
or just add more bans l0l
Everyone should have one ban I feel.
i think that everyone should be able to vote for 3 champs, and the top 5 vote gainers are banned. if eveyrone votes the same three than first pick gets 2 more bans.
unless they actually want to improve Pick/ban and intersperse the bans with the picks.
Problem is riot want competetive to have same ban system as soloq. There are a lot of better alternatives to what we have now. But honestly I don't want bans inbetween picks for soloq. It already takes wayyyy too long to actually get a game. I am only d1 and already spending half of my game time in queue+select if not more.
On February 11 2016 09:56 nafta wrote: Problem is riot want competetive to have same ban system as soloq.
when i get to queue up as coach and direct pick bans instead of the players in the match then it'll be the same. -.- Riot really has a chance to adjust the queue toward improvement when solo queue gets implemented finally.
On February 11 2016 08:41 kongoline wrote: so whats general consensus over new champion select, i just played my first game and the fact i can choose my role is great but everything else seems like a downgrade, harder to see more confusing and seems like a chore to sit thought entire champion select
Only thing I dislike is bans. Feels bad for the people that pick early that have to lobby for bans to avoid hard counters.
I mean, considering how bad professional pick/ban is currently with simple front loaded bans I can't imagine the scene with interwoven pick/ban, except more clown fiestas.
When did clown fiesta become à thing? I basically never saw it before now its invading the threads full force. The lcs thread it was like every other post. Originalty please people!
So is the overall consensus that Duskblade is OPieOP and if you aren't playing an AD melee assassin, you're doing it wrong?
It certainly seems that way from the number of games (and people building it first) I've played. Zed, Talon, Riven, Kha, and Fiora have built it first and proceeded to dumpster their lane or jungle opponent once it was finished... And then proceed to dumpster the rest of the team, because the passive resets.
On February 11 2016 12:20 Kinie wrote: So is the overall consensus that Duskblade is OPieOP and if you aren't playing an AD melee assassin, you're doing it wrong?
It certainly seems that way from the number of games (and people building it first) I've played. Zed, Talon, Riven, Kha, and Fiora have built it first and proceeded to dumpster their lane or jungle opponent once it was finished... And then proceed to dumpster the rest of the team, because the passive resets.
it only kinda resets. it only resets if it was useless.
My biggest problem with the new champ select is how lackluster Fill is. Fill is basically 90% support, which is just stupid. It is galaxies away from what true "fill" players were used to in the old champ select, when aside from mid, they could constantly help their team out by filling an undesired role, which a.) helped their team's overall chances and b.) kept the game interesting for them, because they liked to play at every role. And surprisingly enough, they had to top, jungle or adc more than filling in for supports, because almost everyone had at least one comfortable support pick, but two or three supp mains arguing over the role weren't a rare sight either. On the other hand, top, jungle and adc were really frightening to those who never really played it.
It's good for support mains though, because they don't actually have to pick a secondary role, they just pick Support/Fill (aka Support number 2) and can enjoy the lowest queue times and a guaranteed support spot.
edit: to be fair, from my experience, people are more than willing to help out those who'd like to play another role. Pretty funny when you see all those guys getting mid then freaking out, because they only picked it, because the stupid system forced them to, and mid is the less likely to be actually given to them. Still, the good intentions of the players should not be accumulated into the evaluation of the system, because based on that, we could still have the old champ select.
A lot of people (including me) expected fill to work like "random", maybe slightly skewed towards support. Last week I was picking fill exclusively and out of my last 20 games 12 were on support. I don't think it's a big problem since I can just choose different roles next time and afaik the wait times aren't unbearably long even if you pick mid and top. However I wouldn't mind if Riot tried to make support role more enjoyable.
On February 11 2016 12:25 foxmeep wrote: Duskblade is OP, but Xin is even more OP.
Anyone played Xin with Devourer yet? It was ridiculous based off my 1 game sample.
I had a brief spree with it, Xin is still not the strongest champ ever unfortunately. I won't say it's bad, but it tends to function only if more things than average go your way-- very good if your lanes can shut up and not die or you manage to get good ganks off. Xin remains rather squishy, though I've been building Strength of Ages which helps. On the other hand, full glass cannon would like stormraider's or grasp of the undying perhaps.
I have not played him with the buff yet though which could potentially be significant.
My core has been Devourer -> IBG -> Visage/DMP with swifties/ tabis
Back on Dominion ( too lazy to quote):
Yeah, the player population was never huge-- but the 0.5% was at the end of the game mode's lifetime. I'm guessing at release it was much higher (I think numbers may be floating around for that), but then it's a pretty straight decline from there with a couple small bumps when they bothered doing minor adjustments. With the lack of support, it's not a surprising trend. It's like Riot had a kid then basically didn't take care of it and now wonders why it's not doing well.
On February 11 2016 18:29 Volband wrote: My biggest problem with the new champ select is how lackluster Fill is. Fill is basically 90% support, which is just stupid. It is galaxies away from what true "fill" players were used to in the old champ select, when aside from mid, they could constantly help their team out by filling an undesired role, which a.) helped their team's overall chances and b.) kept the game interesting for them, because they liked to play at every role. And surprisingly enough, they had to top, jungle or adc more than filling in for supports, because almost everyone had at least one comfortable support pick, but two or three supp mains arguing over the role weren't a rare sight either. On the other hand, top, jungle and adc were really frightening to those who never really played it.
It's good for support mains though, because they don't actually have to pick a secondary role, they just pick Support/Fill (aka Support number 2) and can enjoy the lowest queue times and a guaranteed support spot.
edit: to be fair, from my experience, people are more than willing to help out those who'd like to play another role. Pretty funny when you see all those guys getting mid then freaking out, because they only picked it, because the stupid system forced them to, and mid is the less likely to be actually given to them. Still, the good intentions of the players should not be accumulated into the evaluation of the system, because based on that, we could still have the old champ select.
I don't get how this changed though? fill was usually skewed towards support anyways.
On February 11 2016 18:29 Volband wrote: My biggest problem with the new champ select is how lackluster Fill is. Fill is basically 90% support, which is just stupid. It is galaxies away from what true "fill" players were used to in the old champ select, when aside from mid, they could constantly help their team out by filling an undesired role, which a.) helped their team's overall chances and b.) kept the game interesting for them, because they liked to play at every role. And surprisingly enough, they had to top, jungle or adc more than filling in for supports, because almost everyone had at least one comfortable support pick, but two or three supp mains arguing over the role weren't a rare sight either. On the other hand, top, jungle and adc were really frightening to those who never really played it.
It's good for support mains though, because they don't actually have to pick a secondary role, they just pick Support/Fill (aka Support number 2) and can enjoy the lowest queue times and a guaranteed support spot.
edit: to be fair, from my experience, people are more than willing to help out those who'd like to play another role. Pretty funny when you see all those guys getting mid then freaking out, because they only picked it, because the stupid system forced them to, and mid is the less likely to be actually given to them. Still, the good intentions of the players should not be accumulated into the evaluation of the system, because based on that, we could still have the old champ select.
I don't get how this changed though? fill was usually skewed towards support anyways.
Not from what i experienced. Even without name recognition like scarra has, I played support pretty rarely as a fill player. There was a lot more fluidity in champ select before the change, which resulted in that.
For example, i queue up, get a riven main, a mid player a jungler and a top player. top player concedes to the riven main but can't play Adc, mid player swaps to adc to help the team out, junglers champs get banned and opts to support, i take jungle. Now that same situation could obviously still happen, but those conversations are pretty much extinct because the game telling you what you are, people rarely branch out or even try to communicate that anymore.
Not going to comment on whether that change improved or reduced game quality, but it made playing fill a lot less "fill" and a lot more "least common role at MMR rating"\
Also i can't do my "lock in poppy, say fill" anymore. :< but that's a personal thing lol.
Fill is a lot better than I had expected it to be, back when I used to play wow, checking all 3 roles literally meant tank 100% of the time. If you wanted any sense of variety you had to do it manually, with fill I think you actually get everything except mid from time to time.
Perhaps at high MR that was a thing. From my experience plat and lower, more often than not it was a fight about rolls. With double jungle or 2 adcs and shit like that more often than teams really communicating and getting roll sorted out.
There is a pretty decent solution if you just want to play each roll and that is just knock the one you last got out of your choice and have 2 fresh ones as options.
There is no perfect system but the number of fights in pregame chat lobbies has dropped drastically. This was also a place where some people would go mad toxic than just dodge or try to force others to dodge without many if any consequences.
Pretty happy with the change for the most part. I do agree with the banning thing. Before it was good to be top pick because you got roll and you got to ban. Now that everyone gets their roll and there is no banning it is by far the worst slot to get. But like I said overall it is a improvement.
i think that the new system has a disproportionate amount of time waiting for a game to start vs actually playing a game.
at least when TB existed, you'd have one long queue time but would get right into a game because you didn't have to worry about dodges or the rest of the draft process.
current normal draft has been 30-60 minute queues for me followed by a long draft process and a long string of people dodging in champ select. i've been spending >1 hour trying to get into games this past week that often end in 20-25 minutes.
On February 12 2016 03:25 JimmiC wrote: Perhaps at high MR that was a thing. From my experience plat and lower, more often than not it was a fight about rolls. With double jungle or 2 adcs and shit like that more often than teams really communicating and getting roll sorted out.
There is a pretty decent solution if you just want to play each roll and that is just knock the one you last got out of your choice and have 2 fresh ones as options.
There is no perfect system but the number of fights in pregame chat lobbies has dropped drastically. This was also a place where some people would go mad toxic than just dodge or try to force others to dodge without many if any consequences.
Pretty happy with the change for the most part. I do agree with the banning thing. Before it was good to be top pick because you got roll and you got to ban. Now that everyone gets their roll and there is no banning it is by far the worst slot to get. But like I said overall it is a improvement.
i've seen more fights in select, though I imagine having riot line people up and tell them what they should play "fairly" sorts out the people who refuse to do certain roles from last pick, that wasn't particularly common in my game, so now we just get salt about being stuck on your secondary, and some in game rage when the guy who got their primary feeds. people get salty when they get their secondary role over the primary. though i Had a weird game where my mid and my top were mad, then they figured out that the other one got their primary and they swapped roles.
I wonder what the odds of you getting your primary role by the system are, like how it's weighted in matchmaking. it was 60% chance to get the role you wanted before the change with 0 communication. (100% as First pick 20% as last pick, obviously increased if a fill player is above you). now it feels closer to 50/50?
It happens very often that people get their secondary and if they swap around they get their mains. Had 2 games that all 5 of us got secondary and after swapping everyone got their primary lol.
Yeah I see some roll swaping and a lot of pick swapping.
Had some sweet rage against me. I was jungler and "didn't gank top enough" guy was so mad he challenged me to a 1v1 on AMRAM to prove he knew when to gank. I have no idea what a 1v1 shows about when to gank, but especially on a map with different summoners and no backing? Some peoples logic is mystifying.
On February 12 2016 05:29 nafta wrote: It happens very often that people get their secondary and if they swap around they get their mains. Had 2 games that all 5 of us got secondary and after swapping everyone got their primary lol.
That is kind of strange because it should be the case that the computer could match them properly. You should bug-report that game to riot.
On February 12 2016 03:25 JimmiC wrote: Perhaps at high MR that was a thing. From my experience plat and lower, more often than not it was a fight about rolls. With double jungle or 2 adcs and shit like that more often than teams really communicating and getting roll sorted out.
When my ELO improved i noticed a lot less fights/trolling. But apparently it gets worse again as you go up even higher and all of a sudden everyone thinks they're challenger and deserve to be playing with pros
Then again, i am a support main so i rarely had issues in champ select to begin with
On February 11 2016 12:25 foxmeep wrote: Duskblade is OP, but Xin is even more OP.
Anyone played Xin with Devourer yet? It was ridiculous based off my 1 game sample.
I had a brief spree with it, Xin is still not the strongest champ ever unfortunately. I won't say it's bad, but it tends to function only if more things than average go your way-- very good if your lanes can shut up and not die or you manage to get good ganks off. Xin remains rather squishy, though I've been building Strength of Ages which helps. On the other hand, full glass cannon would like stormraider's or grasp of the undying perhaps.
I have not played him with the buff yet though which could potentially be significant.
My core has been Devourer -> IBG -> Visage/DMP with swifties/ tabis
Back on Dominion ( too lazy to quote):
Yeah, the player population was never huge-- but the 0.5% was at the end of the game mode's lifetime. I'm guessing at release it was much higher (I think numbers may be floating around for that), but then it's a pretty straight decline from there with a couple small bumps when they bothered doing minor adjustments. With the lack of support, it's not a surprising trend. It's like Riot had a kid then basically didn't take care of it and now wonders why it's not doing well.
If you're going to bother with playing Xin at all you might as well get a Rageblade.
His damage isn't great otherwise, and he has no escapes and poor kiting too, plus his CC is pretty mediocre. So if you want an engage champ you could pick way better, and I think the attraction of Xin is basically being able to 100-0 someone with just Q+Devourer.
Sheen adds a solid amount of damage, and then IBG + DMP add a lot of stickiness/tankiness esp with the knockup and slow he has built in while he can smack away everyone else with R. You get triple empowered autos with sheen proc/DMP1, devourer proc 2, W crit3 and all of them have your Q damage.
It doesn't one shot enemies, but it does well unless the enemy hard CC's you really fast. I've always played a me + a little help style, never got the hang of assassins really though I think Guinsoo's looks like a nice way to go.
On February 12 2016 13:35 kongoline wrote: so kog is pretty strong now huh?
played to his full potential, yea. He's like the new ryze. You wont see too much qq about him in solo q but im sure he'll start popping up in competitive again especially with this poke/adc meta
I mean he had a 51% win rate before these buffs. Can't wait for Riot to nerf him into the ground in a couple of patches when people realise all u need is 5 seconds of free autos to kill a whole team.
On February 12 2016 16:10 AdsMoFro wrote: I mean he had a 51% win rate before these buffs. Can't wait for Riot to nerf him into the ground in a couple of patches when people realise all u need is 5 seconds of free autos to kill a whole team.
Real question is, can he last 5 seconds with duskblade?
On February 12 2016 16:10 AdsMoFro wrote: I mean he had a 51% win rate before these buffs. Can't wait for Riot to nerf him into the ground in a couple of patches when people realise all u need is 5 seconds of free autos to kill a whole team.
Real question is, can he last 5 seconds with duskblade?
On February 12 2016 09:17 riotjune wrote: Why should I declare my champ (Teemo) just so my team can ban him, yea fuck that
It's more for declaring you'd like to play a op/ban-worthy champion OR if you are an adc, declaring a marksman in case your supp picks before you, so at least you help him out. I would never pre-pick Teemo, Jhin or Yasuo, because that's just asking for a ban. Good thing whenever I declare Yorick, people think I'm just joking, so at least that pick is safe.
Out of the 8 solo fill games I played I got support 8 times. There were also 2 games which only got till champ select (did not lead to any of the 8 games, so they were in seperate queues) where I also got support. That's 10/10.
I wanted supp anyway, so not complaining about that, but don't tell me Fill is good right now.
On February 13 2016 03:04 Volband wrote: Out of the 8 solo fill games I played I got support 8 times. There were also 2 games which only got till champ select (did not lead to any of the 8 games, so they were in seperate queues) where I also got support. That's 10/10.
I wanted supp anyway, so not complaining about that, but don't tell me Fill is good right now.
You're doing it wrong. Take mid and whatever you actually want to do.
I think all the people complaining are pretty high ELO but not top of the top. Cause on the top streams they just all pick fill then sort it out in game just like before. Low plat and below it works fine.
even better is how you cant queue up for a mix of 4 roles with 4 people, you have to cover all 5.
like bitch please we are covering every role except mid just give us a mid and be done with it. Why do we queue up as 4 only for our roles to be complete russian roulette?
On February 13 2016 03:29 JimmiC wrote: I think all the people complaining are pretty high ELO but not top of the top. Cause on the top streams they just all pick fill then sort it out in game just like before. Low plat and below it works fine.
they do this because if you don't pick fill at Masters or challengers level you have 20-30 minute queues like when they implemented it intiialyl and people queue mid/bot and played 3 games in a single stream instead of the 8-10. the population isn't big enough for them to use this queue.
On February 13 2016 03:04 Volband wrote: Out of the 8 solo fill games I played I got support 8 times. There were also 2 games which only got till champ select (did not lead to any of the 8 games, so they were in seperate queues) where I also got support. That's 10/10.
I wanted supp anyway, so not complaining about that, but don't tell me Fill is good right now.
You're doing it wrong. Take mid and whatever you actually want to do.
You'll get what you want 99/100.
I know that, and if you are a fill player, then manually keep switching around top/mid, mid/top, jung/top, top/jung, mid/bot... etc., because that is what Fill supposed to be. But it isn't. Fill is only good right now if you are playing with at least one other person. Yesterday we both went fill for like 3 games and pretty much covered all roles together during those. But if you play alone... yeah, 11/11 just right now.
Edit: and just now someone complaining that he can't play adc, but he went jung/bot in queue. What? Anyway, he failed to lock his champion in, so I got into a new champ select with different people. Still support.
On February 13 2016 03:29 JimmiC wrote: I think all the people complaining are pretty high ELO but not top of the top. Cause on the top streams they just all pick fill then sort it out in game just like before. Low plat and below it works fine.
That happens only in na because there is a very low population there. Here in euw nobody picks fill.
Also I have been watching streams and except qtpie nobody picks fill.
On February 13 2016 03:29 VayneAuthority wrote: even better is how you cant queue up for a mix of 4 roles with 4 people, you have to cover all 5.
like bitch please we are covering every role except mid just give us a mid and be done with it. Why do we queue up as 4 only for our roles to be complete russian roulette?
Yea it is very weird that they ignored this part. I get that they want to reduce q time because of 2 spots rather than 1 but still meh. Would be a lot more reasonable to not have to.
On February 13 2016 03:29 JimmiC wrote: I think all the people complaining are pretty high ELO but not top of the top. Cause on the top streams they just all pick fill then sort it out in game just like before. Low plat and below it works fine.
That happens only in na because there is a very low population there. Here in euw nobody picks fill.
Also I have been watching streams and except qtpie nobody picks fill.
pretty much all of the streamer first guys at challenger MMR pick fill, some of the pros don't, but unless you can only play a single role, those streamers pick fill for more games
On February 13 2016 03:29 JimmiC wrote: I think all the people complaining are pretty high ELO but not top of the top. Cause on the top streams they just all pick fill then sort it out in game just like before. Low plat and below it works fine.
That happens only in na because there is a very low population there. Here in euw nobody picks fill.
Also I have been watching streams and except qtpie nobody picks fill.
pretty much all of the streamer first guys at challenger MMR pick fill, some of the pros don't, but unless you can only play a single role, those streamers pick fill for more games
Maybe this is because I watch sneaky/meteos/qtpie and trick2g mostly. But yea this problem definitely doesn't exist on euw because we don't have THAT big of a difference in timezones like in na. The wait time is still pretty long but not as long. Although I did have 49 minutes last night not including dodges.
On February 13 2016 03:29 JimmiC wrote: I think all the people complaining are pretty high ELO but not top of the top. Cause on the top streams they just all pick fill then sort it out in game just like before. Low plat and below it works fine.
That happens only in na because there is a very low population there. Here in euw nobody picks fill.
Also I have been watching streams and except qtpie nobody picks fill.
pretty much all of the streamer first guys at challenger MMR pick fill, some of the pros don't, but unless you can only play a single role, those streamers pick fill for more games
Maybe this is because I watch sneaky/meteos/qtpie and trick2g mostly. But yea this problem definitely doesn't exist on euw because we don't have THAT big of a difference in timezones like in na. The wait time is still pretty long but not as long. Although I did have 49 minutes last night not including dodges.
NA is weird. the majority of the players are EST, but the majority of top players are PST 3 hour difference. so if you are an east coast player at the top of the ladder you gotta wait forever for games, or play super late at time.
On February 13 2016 03:29 JimmiC wrote: I think all the people complaining are pretty high ELO but not top of the top. Cause on the top streams they just all pick fill then sort it out in game just like before. Low plat and below it works fine.
That happens only in na because there is a very low population there. Here in euw nobody picks fill.
Also I have been watching streams and except qtpie nobody picks fill.
pretty much all of the streamer first guys at challenger MMR pick fill, some of the pros don't, but unless you can only play a single role, those streamers pick fill for more games
Maybe this is because I watch sneaky/meteos/qtpie and trick2g mostly. But yea this problem definitely doesn't exist on euw because we don't have THAT big of a difference in timezones like in na. The wait time is still pretty long but not as long. Although I did have 49 minutes last night not including dodges.
NA is weird. the majority of the players are EST, but the majority of top players are PST 3 hour difference. so if you are an east coast player at the top of the ladder you gotta wait forever for games, or play super late at time.
that is because all the top/professional players moved to CA for lower ping when the servers where located there
On February 13 2016 03:29 VayneAuthority wrote: even better is how you cant queue up for a mix of 4 roles with 4 people, you have to cover all 5.
like bitch please we are covering every role except mid just give us a mid and be done with it. Why do we queue up as 4 only for our roles to be complete russian roulette?
So, yesterday I had my first real dynamic Q horror experience. But as a disclaimer, I should probably say that out of the ~100 combined games in both of my accs, this was the first instance of dynamic Q actually fucking a team majorly over (in my case), so I am not complaining about that ratio.
Long story short, the enemy top-mid-jung were a 3-men premade, very very likely on voice comm, and they just destroyed our jungle and top, while keeping mid in check. They constantly moved together, chainwarded our red-side jungle, and any reaction from our top or mid were way too late, as pings or basic map-awareness can't match 3 people having instant voice access to one-another. The unfair thing is, that we did not have a 3-men premade in our team. I was duoing (supp-mid) and MAYBE our adc and top were duoing too, not sure about that. Based on chat I would say no, but it's possible. In any case, it was pretty damn disgusting, and once again, I don't understand the lack of in-game voice-chat, when the whole dynamic Q is advertised as "play this TEAM game as it was meant to be played!"
This and the lack of replay system which drives me crazy about Riot. I really don't give a crap about sandbox mode, it is one of the worst circlejerk in LoL's history and I am fully supporting Riot not implementing it, but come on man. Where are my rep--
On February 13 2016 03:29 VayneAuthority wrote: even better is how you cant queue up for a mix of 4 roles with 4 people, you have to cover all 5.
like bitch please we are covering every role except mid just give us a mid and be done with it. Why do we queue up as 4 only for our roles to be complete russian roulette?
Risk of noone willing to main support, basically.
While I can see how in the grand scheme of things support might be the least coveted role, I think since S3 the role had seen a huge surge in popularity, not to mention many unconventional supports have been introduced since then (not just talking about champs that were released as supp) which shy away from the traditional utility-heavy playstyle which many people found boring.
All in all, I don't think Riot should go out its way to kinda force people into playing supp. I know Teambuilder had a serious lack of support players, but that's rather different. If you just want to have fun (alone or with friends), then playing support is hardly the way. Unless it's J4 support with Yasuo adc or sth like that.
Maining jungle/support but also liking to fill is pretty shitty right now. I queue as jungle/support, I get support every single game. I queue as fill, I get support in most games. I queue as jungle/top, I get top in almost every game. I queue as jungle/mid, I get mid most games. Come on.
If you duo, can you and your duo both queue up as the same positions and guarantee that you get your positions? Like if I duo with a top main, can we duo as jungle/top and top/jungle and we'll both get our roles?
On February 13 2016 20:37 GolemMadness wrote: If you duo, can you and your duo both queue up as the same positions and guarantee that you get your positions? Like if I duo with a top main, can we duo as jungle/top and top/jungle and we'll both get our roles?
No, you always have to select [number of players in the party+1] role. But it should be rather easy if one of you guys put mid as your secondary. Worst case scenario you ask someone to change with you.
What's completely bonkers, however, that you have to select roles as a 5-men queue as well. Just wow.
On February 13 2016 16:02 Volband wrote: I know Teambuilder had a serious lack of support players, but that's rather different. If you just want to have fun (alone or with friends), then playing support is hardly the way. Unless it's J4 support with Yasuo adc or sth like that.
Team builder had a lack of support players due to the teambuilder captains being dicks. team builder a place where you can queue up by role and not be forced into specific champions, except if you play support, because fuck you for not picking one of the top 2 meta supports, you're getting booted.\
but yes, even if 1% of your games are negatively impacted by dynamic queue, that means that you as a non- grouped player are skewed down in rank by grouped players. it's why dynamic queue rank will be meaningless the moment they release solo queue.
On February 13 2016 16:02 Volband wrote: While I can see how in the grand scheme of things support might be the least coveted role, I think since S3 the role had seen a huge surge in popularity, not to mention many unconventional supports have been introduced since then (not just talking about champs that were released as supp) which shy away from the traditional utility-heavy playstyle which many people found boring.
I think support is a lot more popular. but they have a lot less impact on a game than season 3, where a support player controlled the whole map and could shut down an enemy carry. It was significantly harder and a lot more punishing for failure, which lead to people complaining about it. I miss being able to win 80+% of games on support.
Warding power got gutted, but supports got buffed. AP ratios and new items. Harder to carry low elo games I guess, where you only had to ward their entire jungle, and your guys just could not throw, or could catch the enemy, because their support did not even know there is a sweeper/oracle.
On February 14 2016 02:16 Volband wrote: Warding power got gutted, but supports got buffed. AP ratios and new items. Harder to carry low elo games I guess, where you only had to ward their entire jungle, and your guys just could not throw, or could catch the enemy, because their support did not even know there is a sweeper/oracle.
I think support dropped off at all levels. the champions got stronger, the role got weaker. season 3 we had supports making big impacts in professional play. most of our "star" supports broke out in season 3, support picks drew bans, even critically during worlds the bans against tabe are huge, and people did their best to knock supports out of the comfort zone in competitive play, because they dictated a lot of the game back then.
nowadays supports feel like a crappy solo laner with a more predictable map presence than a jungler. they do more in 1v1's, but less for the game. I remember supports and mid laners were the top two roles represented in korean challenger in season 3. now i think it's top +mid, i know mid dropped off a bit, but i don't think it's below adc yet.
it's also a lot harder to create a gold disparity between you and your direct counterpart, nowdays support gold is more dictated by the game clock than how well you are doing.
For everyone except top level organised play supports are significantly stronger than s3. Unless you are REALLY good warding doesn't matter much. There are exceptions like fiddle that make warding important but they are few.
It is similar to the myth where people think that duoing bot lane makes you win more and shit while the only difference is you are getting a non retard. Communication matters only if you use it properly and the difference between playing with a random competent player and someone you know isn't big.
On February 14 2016 02:56 Slusher wrote: it's also a lot harder to create a gold disparity between you and your direct counterpart, nowdays support gold is more dictated by the game clock than how well you are doing.
at least thats how it feels to me playing it.
This is true as well.
the best supports would have an item.
it sounds laughable, but that first item is a big deal. if i have an aegis/bulwark it meant that my top or jungle (most often jungle) could buy another item, and that rippled to the solo lanes and created this disproportionate gain for my team. We could adjust support items from that meta by creating small cost items for supports to purchase when they couldn't get a huge swing of a bulwark., they could buy "frost queen's claim" a 900-1200 gold item that is just 50% mana regen and the ghost active.
instead we went the opposite with league, created a big gold gain, passively, and through items, to give all units roughly the same goals for items, the big, end game ones.
The poorest 2 people on your team nowadays gains passive gold the fastest, they also gain passive gold from Gold gain items as it's usually the support or jungler, whether the passive gold is from frost queen or the coin or whatever, or it's from the jungle item's bonus gold, both are limited by the same thing, time. not efficacy. With global gold taken off the map in the form of dragons, and tower gold shifted toward the people the take the tower, a support has to be everywhere to take advantage of the global gold to get ahead, OR as is often the case in league, you shift that income onto your carries, as items scale incredibly well. this leaves the support in a position where the best thing you can do for your team is create the circumstance for them to do the work. which means you are inherently more reliant on them.
even time is reliant on your teammates. supports cannot stall in this game (outside of maybe janna), they cannot wave clear well, they cannot defend towers well, the game's pace is chosen from your team, and by proxy, the amount of money your support gets to use.
The support cannot through self sacrifice increase map control, you are limited in warding, and cannot rush 9 (Unless zil with XP runes) for a blue trinket to try to break that limit, at the cost of vision denial. The support is flotsam, raised by the tides and lowered by them, they can sometimes matter, but they need the team desperately to follow through or their efforts are wasted.
On February 14 2016 03:00 nafta wrote: For everyone except top level organised play supports are significantly stronger than s3. Unless you are REALLY good warding doesn't matter much. There are exceptions like fiddle that make warding important but they are few.
It is similar to the myth where people think that duoing bot lane makes you win more and shit while the only difference is you are getting a non retard. Communication matters only if you use it properly and the difference between playing with a random competent player and someone you know isn't big.
Again I think there is an important line to be drawn between supports, and the support role.
as an extreme example, if you give a support equal gold to the highest gold team member, that support is stronger. but the role, what they are asked to do, isn't greater. they can just do so more easily.
On February 14 2016 03:10 nafta wrote: The average support wouldn't be stronger since that is the whole point of support. You pick champs that are good without gold.
If you are playing a champion that doesn't do damage of course you can't solo carry unless your team shows signs of life. Is this supposed to be bad?
Look at what the support role was asked to do season 3:
1.Give up last hit gold 2. buy GP10 items for the purposes of funding wards 3. use those wards to control dangerous territory (enemy jungle, behind lane towers that would be the focus of a push effort, control dragon/baron) 4. Protect the carry through early levels 5. Defend against fast push or enable your own fash push, depending on the draft 6. Roam to coordinate with your jungler 7. Defend the carry from assassination (from a much more powerful champion than yours) 8. Initiate fights with CC if possible 9. Any gold earned should be spent on team items 10. Secure fights over dragon or baron by warding and threats of CC/initiation 11. do all of this with 1/4 the gold of your partners
the penalties of failing this is you feed the enemy team and snowball the game against you. the reward is to stonewall the other team entirely and prevent them from being able to get a foothold.
Nowadays you do 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10. The penalty for failure is. having to wait longer to be as useful. the reward for success is control over part of the map and successfully stalling for late game.
I don't see why you have to wait longer to be useful. With there being less wards you just have to use less wards to do a similar job rather than buying 10 and placing them everywhere like a monkey. You just have to roam more to create pressure rather than just by putting down wards.
This is the time with the shortest game times we have ever had how is stalling for lategame your reward?
Sure if you played vs some random retard who doesn't play support you could abuse him more but that only matters when your direct opponent doesn't play the role. You can still smash lane and outroam very hard so I honestly don't see what the problem is as someone who has played support for 5 years.
Support losing influence gives it to the other roles which were weaker. Top lane and ad in s3 really didn't matter that much. Now it is much fairer.
On February 14 2016 03:26 nafta wrote: I don't see why you have to wait longer to be useful. With there being less wards you just have to use less wards to do a similar job rather than buying 10 and placing them everywhere like a monkey. You just have to roam more to create pressure rather than just by putting down wards.
This is the time with the shortest game times we have ever had how is stalling for lategame your reward?
Sure if you played vs some random retard who doesn't play support you could abuse him more but that only matters when your direct opponent doesn't play the role. You can still smash lane and outroam very hard so I honestly don't see what the problem is as someone who has played support for 5 years.
my role of support is more based on the current patch of competitive play at the highest level. not the duskblade meta that has yet to shift competitive.it's unfair to speculate on the duskblade meta level of support when we have zero competitive games with it, and dynamic queue is a completely different beast that has little or no meaning for the role of supports competitively.
On February 14 2016 03:26 nafta wrote: Support losing influence gives it to the other roles which were weaker. Top lane and ad in s3 really didn't matter that much. Now it is much fairer.
I have no interest in fairness between roles. if every role is equal at all times, then every role is meaningless at all times.
I'm commenting on the role of support. how top or AD exist doesn't change the lessening of the role. Yeah top might be more meaningful, though i'd definitively argue that the strength of your ADC in season 3 as as important as it is currently (in pre duskblade competitive meta).
however not dying is as much as a skill as snowballing. and as the two primary victims of mid lane in season 3, your ability to not die, and contribute with huge restrictions (spacing and mechanical speed for adc, and map awareness and gold for support) lead to a greater disparity in skill level, and a better game, in my opinion.
Without a large amount of failure and risk, accomplishment is lessened. If i walk in a straight line without falling that someone draws on the sidewalk it's neat at best. if i walk between two buildings on a tightrope without falling it's incredible, because so many others would fail. with less difficulty, with less risk and room for failure, less restrictions, there is less room to prove your superiority. the bar for what is good moves closer to what is good enough.
Well if it is less interesting to watch for you unlucky. But for me at least watching an actual team game where everyone has similar influence level is a lot more interesting than watching people drag corpses.
And you are really overrating the difficulty of support. In s2/3 there were just very few people who even played the role. The majority of our players were people who didn't make it in other roles and were relegated to support because the team wanted to keep them.
On February 14 2016 03:37 nafta wrote: Well if it is less interesting to watch for you unlucky. But for me at least watching an actual team game where everyone has similar influence level is a lot more interesting than watching people drag corpses.
I prefer that we be amazed by the accomplishments of the greats, than to see the same show over and over with the differences being who controlled their limited ward supply around an objective with the most accuracy, as was often the case in competitive play so far this season.
When the emphasis is on team play, not individual play, there is less excitement, like amazement. it's okay that you prefer the game where coordination in more important than execution, but i miss those days where failure had consequences beyond just waiting for the next opportunity.
The quarter final junglers: Cyanide, watch, Lucky, bengi.
2 of the top 4 junglers at the tournament.
Even mid lane was missing some of the best at the tournament, DaDe did not make top 4. in season 3 the best supports correlated the highest with placement at worlds.
I don't know about Cain, but those were also 3 of the best bot lanes in the world to be fair. As a support main (ish) I won't take anything away from any of them though.
On February 14 2016 05:34 nafta wrote: Yea I still remember that legendary yellowstar/puszu lane or the godly annie 1 trick that reached the finals :D
Interesting you call tabe a one trick for playing annie twice in the bracket stage, but also sona, zyra, lulu. the only other supports that were picked were cain's thresh when it didnt get banned from him, and nami, mostly by Poohmandu.
On February 14 2016 05:46 Fildun wrote: PX did you just call S3 Yellowstar better than Mata or are did you just forget about him while making your point.
Mata played really badly at worlds that year. He was not one of the best supports at that tournament.
On February 14 2016 05:34 nafta wrote: Yea I still remember that legendary yellowstar/puszu lane or the godly annie 1 trick that reached the finals :D
Interesting you call tabe a one trick for playing annie twice in the bracket stage, but also sona, zyra, lulu. the only other supports that were picked were cain's thresh when it didnt get banned from him, and nami, mostly by Poohmandu.
On February 14 2016 05:34 nafta wrote: Yea I still remember that legendary yellowstar/puszu lane or the godly annie 1 trick that reached the finals :D
Interesting you call tabe a one trick for playing annie twice in the bracket stage, but also sona, zyra, lulu. the only other supports that were picked were cain's thresh when it didnt get banned from him, and nami, mostly by Poohmandu.
On February 14 2016 05:46 Fildun wrote: PX did you just call S3 Yellowstar better than Mata or are did you just forget about him while making your point.
Mata played really badly at worlds that year. He was not one of the best supports at that tournament.
Oh yeah, just talking about the tournament that makes a bit of sense. Still it sounds like a really small sample size for these kind of statements.
On February 14 2016 05:34 nafta wrote: Yea I still remember that legendary yellowstar/puszu lane or the godly annie 1 trick that reached the finals :D
Interesting you call tabe a one trick for playing annie twice in the bracket stage, but also sona, zyra, lulu. the only other supports that were picked were cain's thresh when it didnt get banned from him, and nami, mostly by Poohmandu.
On February 14 2016 05:46 Fildun wrote: PX did you just call S3 Yellowstar better than Mata or are did you just forget about him while making your point.
Mata played really badly at worlds that year. He was not one of the best supports at that tournament.
Oh yeah, just talking about the tournament that makes a bit of sense. Still it sounds like a really small sample size for these kind of statements.
During the season Support plays were huge as well, Madlife didn't even make worlds. but I used worlds as an example because while you could argue population of supports is why the best supports often won games in regular season games, the top teams had most of the top supports in the worlds (the exceptions being over qualifying regions, like NA and the wildcard).
But if you want an example of how bad Mata played at worlds he averaged 5+ deaths per game.seemingly most of any support in his group from a glance.
On February 14 2016 07:59 kongoline wrote: anyone tried skarner with Runic Echo? friend says its basically udyr but is never banned or picked
I don't really see skarner being able to benefit enough from it really just the movement speed rest of the item is dead on him atleast udyr the abilty power is good early game on him
On February 14 2016 07:59 kongoline wrote: anyone tried skarner with Runic Echo? friend says its basically udyr but is never banned or picked
I don't really see skarner being able to benefit enough from it really just the movement speed rest of the item is dead on him atleast udyr the abilty power is good early game on him
Based on some comments about season 3 being the golden age of supports I went back and read some season 3 threads.
People disagree completely there was mass support is broken, just ward and elixer bots. Must fix here's how and so on. I think PX was in the huge minority of enjoying season 3 support or just looking at it through Rose colored glasses
I'm beginning to hate this season. Either my team spirals out of control and dominates or the other team does. Even games or comeback games simply don't happen anymore. They are a rare breed.
On February 14 2016 10:32 Disengaged wrote: I'm beginning to hate this season. Either my team spirals out of control and dominates or the other team does. Even games or comeback games simply don't happen anymore. They are a rare breed.
Slowly but surely losing its fun factor.
I think it's just the matchmaking is more imbalanced.
It is just early season. Just looking at my games I still get players who averaged plat 2 from last season in my games in d1/master. Also dynamic que boosting people. There were also a couple of players who couldnt get out of d3 until this season randomly get challenger and they finally dropping. It will get better.
Also people already getting boosted lol. Have a friend who has clocked >300 games yet has 20 on his main lol.
On the contrary my last few games were all "one team stomps early and then throws and loses". I don't really see any big trends this season tbh fam other than the fact early game is more random because less vision.
On February 14 2016 10:32 Disengaged wrote: I'm beginning to hate this season. Either my team spirals out of control and dominates or the other team does. Even games or comeback games simply don't happen anymore. They are a rare breed.
Slowly but surely losing its fun factor.
the 2 closest games i have had in the last 20 games or so were still onesided until someone threw at the end
i'd say "the game is more snowbally" but it's always like that, a leblanc in my last ranked game had 25 mejais stacks by as many minutes. i guess death timers make late game even worse now because someone getting caught and dying has even more of an impact
Rumble Jungle's clear is insane, with a little kiting and a spammable shield you can clear forever and the new item is quite good on him... try it out. Ganks not always great obviously because slows aren't enough against some champs but objective control is obviously always there and fits pretty well in a siege focused meta both for and against.
This new buffed kog is so disgusting holy shit. Just as was anticipated if you pick proper peel there is pretty much nothing the enemy can do. Only possible way to win would be splitpushing with viktor+ez with shiv waveclear lol
From the games I've played, if you can get kog to rageblade+hurricane and keep him alive for 2-3 seconds of dps, you'll basically win every single fight on the back of kog alone. It's absolutely silly. He doesn't need peel so much as he needs to just be kept alive for those few seconds(soraka, lulu, janna etc). His damage output(burst and sustained) is higher than anything that isn't an assassin, and if he can live the burst just slaughters people.
On February 15 2016 13:38 nafta wrote: This new buffed kog is so disgusting holy shit. Just as was anticipated if you pick proper peel there is pretty much nothing the enemy can do. Only possible way to win would be splitpushing with viktor+ez with shiv waveclear lol
I mean everyone knew the remaked kogs new design was terrible but it didnt matter because he was being kept in an ok-ish state. When you make him legitimately strong his bad design is gonna start showing.
but, this has happened in league before and for grouped up peel/heal strats the answer has always been a super long hard engage that has a lot of CC/AOE. Zac/Amumu/etc are your best bet. It used to be fiddlesticks back in the day but not many people know how to play him well. His aoe silence/fear dumpsters those kind of comps tho
On February 15 2016 23:57 VayneAuthority wrote: I mean everyone knew the remaked kogs new design was terrible but it didnt matter because he was being kept in an ok-ish state. When you make him legitimately strong his bad design is gonna start showing.
but, this has happened in league before and for grouped up peel/heal strats the answer has always been a super long hard engage that has a lot of CC/AOE. Zac/Amumu/etc are your best bet. It used to be fiddlesticks back in the day but not many people know how to play him well. His aoe silence/fear dumpsters those kind of comps tho
Too bad they basically have killed off hard engage as a legitimate strat.
On February 15 2016 23:57 VayneAuthority wrote: I mean everyone knew the remaked kogs new design was terrible but it didnt matter because he was being kept in an ok-ish state. When you make him legitimately strong his bad design is gonna start showing.
but, this has happened in league before and for grouped up peel/heal strats the answer has always been a super long hard engage that has a lot of CC/AOE. Zac/Amumu/etc are your best bet. It used to be fiddlesticks back in the day but not many people know how to play him well. His aoe silence/fear dumpsters those kind of comps tho
Too bad they basically have killed off hard engage as a legitimate strat.
yup I didnt bother mentioning malphite the only viable one because anyone running this comp is gonna ban it. So be suspicious if you see a malph ban, I usually counterban kog if malph is banned.
Well, the question is in pro play, which players actually have Malph in their champ pool? And, just as importantly, which can not end up 100 CS behind a decent Fiora? Does Malph even work if they just pick Tahm Kench and eat Kog? Plus, the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways. So you almost have to lose a fight to win the next one.
Remember when initiation was Morgana flash-ulting into 4 people?
I don't see Lee or Vi being used as initiators because they don't have the durability to pull it off without dying instantly, and there's too much risk of being interrupted in the middle of it. It's really hard to initiate without a flank, almost everyone feels like Shyvana or Rammus used to, and with people getting better at vision you basically need TP now anyway.
On February 16 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote: Well, the question is in pro play, which players actually have Malph in their champ pool? And, just as importantly, which can not end up 100 CS behind a decent Fiora? Does Malph even work if they just pick Tahm Kench and eat Kog? Plus, the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways. So you almost have to lose a fight to win the next one.
what is the least popular role in dynamic? I only want to play adc which you give support as a good second but causes me to rage too much and i imagine the que would just give me support all the time.
On February 16 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote: Well, the question is in pro play, which players actually have Malph in their champ pool? And, just as importantly, which can not end up 100 CS behind a decent Fiora? Does Malph even work if they just pick Tahm Kench and eat Kog? Plus, the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways. So you almost have to lose a fight to win the next one.
On February 16 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote: Well, the question is in pro play, which players actually have Malph in their champ pool? And, just as importantly, which can not end up 100 CS behind a decent Fiora? Does Malph even work if they just pick Tahm Kench and eat Kog? Plus, the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways. So you almost have to lose a fight to win the next one.
This actually isn't as true as it used to be.
How does that make any sense.
My assumption is because malphites are tending to use his ultimate as a follow up or from fog or extremely short ranged, all of which are incredibly difficult to dodge.
Though that might not be what he means, and rather he's talking about how individual skill and reaction speed has died down as the principle factor in players getting to the pros. As fights and avoiding death are more important than flashy plays, and it's possible to avoid death through sheer speed, but it's far easier to just avoid the fight with a better decision in the first place.
On February 16 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote: Well, the question is in pro play, which players actually have Malph in their champ pool? And, just as importantly, which can not end up 100 CS behind a decent Fiora? Does Malph even work if they just pick Tahm Kench and eat Kog? Plus, the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways. So you almost have to lose a fight to win the next one.
This actually isn't as true as it used to be.
How does that make any sense.
My assumption is because malphites are tending to use his ultimate as a follow up or from fog or extremely short ranged, all of which are incredibly difficult to dodge.
Though that might not be what he means, and rather he's talking about how individual skill and reaction speed has died down as the principle factor in players getting to the pros. As fights and avoiding death are more important than flashy plays, and it's possible to avoid death through sheer speed, but it's far easier to just avoid the fight with a better decision in the first place.
Plus with the age of TP engages there's a lot of Malph ults coming from very different angles.
On February 16 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote: Well, the question is in pro play, which players actually have Malph in their champ pool? And, just as importantly, which can not end up 100 CS behind a decent Fiora? Does Malph even work if they just pick Tahm Kench and eat Kog? Plus, the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways. So you almost have to lose a fight to win the next one.
This actually isn't as true as it used to be.
Last year when Malph was popular for a few weeks is what I based my statement of "the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways" so I would like to know what happened since then.
On February 16 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote: Well, the question is in pro play, which players actually have Malph in their champ pool? And, just as importantly, which can not end up 100 CS behind a decent Fiora? Does Malph even work if they just pick Tahm Kench and eat Kog? Plus, the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways. So you almost have to lose a fight to win the next one.
This actually isn't as true as it used to be.
Last year when Malph was popular for a few weeks is what I based my statement of "the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways" so I would like to know what happened since then.
All I know for certain is that I'm seeing a lot more malph ults hitting people that still have their flashes up across the LCS regions and Korea.
On February 16 2016 04:49 MuddyJam wrote: what is the least popular role in dynamic? I only want to play adc which you give support as a good second but causes me to rage too much and i imagine the que would just give me support all the time.
i think the least popular tends to be support but it might fluctuate a little bit in different elo brackets
On February 16 2016 04:41 cLutZ wrote: Well, the question is in pro play, which players actually have Malph in their champ pool? And, just as importantly, which can not end up 100 CS behind a decent Fiora? Does Malph even work if they just pick Tahm Kench and eat Kog? Plus, the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways. So you almost have to lose a fight to win the next one.
This actually isn't as true as it used to be.
Last year when Malph was popular for a few weeks is what I based my statement of "the pro ADCs are really good at flashing Unstoppable Force anyways" so I would like to know what happened since then.
All I know for certain is that I'm seeing a lot more malph ults hitting people that still have their flashes up across the LCS regions and Korea.
This is clearly a false statement as Korea has played Malph 1 time. It lost, it was an abomination. Neither of the 2 ADCs played by the opposing team had a death.
pretty sure malph popularity has nothing to do with pros suddenly not being able to flash his R and more with the fact all his counters got nerfed, lw got changed and he got small buffs few patches in row
So, I've pretty much reached the point where I'm taking Arm Pen on every Warrior jungler over AD. It just ends up being so much better when you hit Warrior.
arpen is good cuz its basically % dmg, ad only wins if scaling is really good
ive taken atkspd on a decent number of champs though, it makes that first clear super ez though it becomes relatively useless later on unless you're someone who relies on AA's (aka devourer champ)
On February 16 2016 12:54 ticklishmusic wrote: arpen is good cuz its basically % dmg, ad only wins if scaling is really good
ive taken atkspd on a decent number of champs though, it makes that first clear super ez though it becomes relatively useless later on unless you're someone who relies on AA's (aka devourer champ)
Well, yeah, that's why you run armor pen marks and AS quints. Or in the case of Jarvan and Vi, AD quints.
On February 16 2016 12:26 JimmiC wrote: I've never used attack move. Should I? In what situations? How do you bind it?
I only use attack move when I'm kiting so I don't have to be as precise. Or if I'm chasing into a bush and don't want to get juked. Got it assigned to a thumb button.
On February 16 2016 12:54 ticklishmusic wrote: arpen is good cuz its basically % dmg, ad only wins if scaling is really good
ive taken atkspd on a decent number of champs though, it makes that first clear super ez though it becomes relatively useless later on unless you're someone who relies on AA's (aka devourer champ)
Well, yeah, that's why you run armor pen marks and AS quints. Or in the case of Jarvan and Vi, AD quints.
On February 16 2016 12:26 JimmiC wrote: I've never used attack move. Should I? In what situations? How do you bind it?
I only use attack move when I'm kiting so I don't have to be as precise. Or if I'm chasing into a bush and don't want to get juked. Got it assigned to a thumb button.
i think i have movespeed quints for most champs, for some reason never considered changing them. good call.
On February 16 2016 12:26 JimmiC wrote: I've never used attack move. Should I? In what situations? How do you bind it?
Yes!
It's by default bound to "a" but that also requires a left click. You can rebind under movement keybinds in settings (mess around in a custom game to get things how you want them)
A-move has three primary advantages.
1) you cannot misclick and run into enemies instead of attacking. In low ELO you will often notice ADCs stutter at the back of a fight while in rage instead of attacking. This is a misclick attack command sending them into the middle of enemies then corrected. A move will stop to attack the closest enemy in range.
2) you will not miss units/wards if not paying attention to your direct area of the map when moving.
3) in instances where something enters your view or attack range you gain server priority over a new attack command because the server is already registering the attack command. This gives you inhuman response times to certain types of surprise attacks.
A-move has some downsides
1) it will always attack enemies in range (either closest to your click or to yourself depending on a toggle which is I forget where). This can make attempting to auto attack as a melee champion difficult with enemies near your attack range if you're in creeps. As your character will stop to attack a creep of the original target leaves attack range and you weren't perfect with your clicking.
as a ranged champion you should use A-move whenever you want to attack anything or when generally moving around the map while not in range of creeps. (Because you will attack the creeps/enemies rather than move which may slow you down.)
As a melee champion you should use a-move whenever you're moving around the map. And sometimes for attack commands in fights not near creeps.
Always a-move into bushes with all champions whenever moving into or through them.
Always use attack move. If you click on targets with attack move it just attacks them so it is better 100% of the time. Even if you never misclick(lol) there is still no reason to not use attack move.
On February 17 2016 02:44 nafta wrote: Always use attack move. If you click on targets with attack move it just attacks them so it is better 100% of the time. Even if you never misclick(lol) there is still no reason to not use attack move.
I've seen countless times where the Vayne (for example) attack moved and missed crucial silver bolt proc's beause of it. I've also seen fights near minion waves go wrong because of it.
Attack move is NOT better 100% of the time. It's definitely situational and up to preference though.
On February 17 2016 02:44 nafta wrote: Always use attack move. If you click on targets with attack move it just attacks them so it is better 100% of the time. Even if you never misclick(lol) there is still no reason to not use attack move.
I've seen countless times where the Vayne (for example) attack moved and missed crucial silver bolt proc's beause of it. I've also seen fights near minion waves go wrong because of it.
Attack move is NOT better 100% of the time. It's definitely situational and up to preference though.
Nah you just use ` + attack move in those situations.
On February 17 2016 02:44 nafta wrote: Always use attack move. If you click on targets with attack move it just attacks them so it is better 100% of the time. Even if you never misclick(lol) there is still no reason to not use attack move.
I've seen countless times where the Vayne (for example) attack moved and missed crucial silver bolt proc's beause of it. I've also seen fights near minion waves go wrong because of it.
Attack move is NOT better 100% of the time. It's definitely situational and up to preference though.
That is because he attack moves the ground. If you press on top of people it functions the same way as right click.
It is literally the same except you can't walk up and die cuz you misclicked. Why would you not use it unless you are an actual good player but if you were why would you be on this forum asking for if you should use it?
Do people not know that just because you are attack moving doesn't mean you should press in random locations on the screen?
I bound A-move to a side mouse button, it's nice and convenient for stutterstepping.
Is Zac buggy as heck for anyone else? I know Riot basically stopped caring about him after the blob nerf, but I feel like E bugs out once in every ~5 casts. Either it runs into a wall that it should have cleared, or it will just cancel, or shoot in the wrong direction. Some of them can be attributed to misclicks but I'm often left staring at the screen because I couldn't make it out of Dragon pit after channeling for nearly 2 full seconds.
Also, not a bug, but it feels really crappy how easy it is to CC him during his ult. Like, he just feels bad all around, which sucks.
So what's the ideal endgame Kog build now? Rageblade->Runaans->BoRK->???
I usually finish with a combination of Scimitar (if there's suppress), Wits End, or BT for shield. Messed around with Nashors and liked that....more W uptime. Maybe Void Staff if they stack MR?
On February 17 2016 03:33 Koenig99 wrote: So what's the ideal endgame Kog build now? Rageblade->Runaans->BoRK->???
I usually finish with a combination of Scimitar (if there's suppress), Wits End, or BT for shield. Messed around with Nashors and liked that....more W uptime. Maybe Void Staff if they stack MR?
Thoughts?
I actually feel that BoRK before Rageblade feels better. I know Rageblade is the imba OP, but BoRK feels a bit smoother and having the lifesteal and active for skirmishes feels a bit better, especially when your team doesn't peel as well as they should.
After those 3, though, I usually go for GA. Probably better choices out there, but my positioning is bad and being able to pop up after the inevitable focus fire is extremely nice.
Yeah, I agree with BoRK before Runaans, the lifesteal definitely helps you stay in fights. Also been tinkering with the idea of Sterraks as a defensive option after seeing WildTurtle get it last weekend.
On February 17 2016 03:33 Koenig99 wrote: So what's the ideal endgame Kog build now? Rageblade->Runaans->BoRK->???
I usually finish with a combination of Scimitar (if there's suppress), Wits End, or BT for shield. Messed around with Nashors and liked that....more W uptime. Maybe Void Staff if they stack MR?
Thoughts?
I actually feel that BoRK before Rageblade feels better. I know Rageblade is the imba OP, but BoRK feels a bit smoother and having the lifesteal and active for skirmishes feels a bit better, especially when your team doesn't peel as well as they should.
After those 3, though, I usually go for GA. Probably better choices out there, but my positioning is bad and being able to pop up after the inevitable focus fire is extremely nice.
If you need lifesteal so much just buy a cull. Rageblade+hurricane should be the first 2 items always the damage scaling is just too much to pass up. Not like bork is gonna save you if someone goes on you and you aren't getting peel anyway.
So personally I just binded what is shift+rightlick by default to my A button and I use it exclusively for autoattacking. I'm actually really suprised that on one hand everyone is hell-bent on smartcasting every spell, but those same people don't have problem with using shift+rightlick, or even the default A and then leftclick.
On February 17 2016 02:44 nafta wrote: Always use attack move. If you click on targets with attack move it just attacks them so it is better 100% of the time. Even if you never misclick(lol) there is still no reason to not use attack move.
I've seen countless times where the Vayne (for example) attack moved and missed crucial silver bolt proc's beause of it. I've also seen fights near minion waves go wrong because of it.
Attack move is NOT better 100% of the time. It's definitely situational and up to preference though.
That is because he attack moves the ground. If you press on top of people it functions the same way as right click.
It is literally the same except you can't walk up and die cuz you misclicked. Why would you not use it unless you are an actual good player but if you were why would you be on this forum asking for if you should use it?
Do people not know that just because you are attack moving doesn't mean you should press in random locations on the screen?
I mean, in Uldridge's example the idea is that if you rightlick and miss the target (either because he just got out of vision or flashed or you just fucking missed) then you just move towards him, whereas pressing attack move will result in attacking closest minion. But then ` + attack is still the best option.
On February 17 2016 03:42 nafta wrote: If you need lifesteal so much just buy a cull. Rageblade+hurricane should be the first 2 items always the damage scaling is just too much to pass up. Not like bork is gonna save you if someone goes on you and you aren't getting peel anyway.
BoRK's helped me win more duels than I can count, tbh. And if I can win duels and dives, I can get Rageblade/Hurricane faster. But, that's just anecdotal.
What the heck's a Cull? I just recently started playing again.
Oh. That's... neat, I guess, but I've never been a fan of stacking extra starting items.
On February 17 2016 03:33 Koenig99 wrote: So what's the ideal endgame Kog build now? Rageblade->Runaans->BoRK->???
I usually finish with a combination of Scimitar (if there's suppress), Wits End, or BT for shield. Messed around with Nashors and liked that....more W uptime. Maybe Void Staff if they stack MR?
Thoughts?
Most pros have been doing Rageblade -> Runaans -> Bork -> Steraks and then Mercurial or Maw
Kog with Lulu is more terror than ever before, now that he can get through laning phase once he gets like 2 items, the insane AS makes lulu's pixie proc so much...
There's a Kog AS nerf on the PBE, to 0.558 (lower than Illaoi as 0.571 for the new lowest base AS champ), considering his current AS is somewhat high (0.665 or something like this) it could have a pretty big impact.
On February 17 2016 03:44 AlterKot wrote: So personally I just binded what is shift+rightlick by default to my A button and I use it exclusively for autoattacking. I'm actually really suprised that on one hand everyone is hell-bent on smartcasting every spell, but those same people don't have problem with using shift+rightlick, or even the default A and then leftclick.
Its just a preference thing. Nobody in this thread here is getting held back by smart casting or not. Froggen and Apdo both don't use smart cast. I can point to top level adc's that use only right click and others that use a click.
edit: Just checked
Forgv1n = a click Imp = right clicks
Your not getting any higher level mechanical players than those two.
On February 17 2016 06:56 ticklishmusic wrote: They could just make tenacity have decreasing marginal returns like they did for movespeed...
Tenacity is already multiplicative, the issue would lie with Irelia reaching 40% more than anything. And Singed and Trundle lost their tenacity, can't have the "hard to kill and just run around" champs keep doing that. It's only Mundo and Irelia, with Sejuani reducing slow potency after triggering her passive.
On February 17 2016 06:35 wei2coolman wrote: Kog with Lulu is more terror than ever before, now that he can get through laning phase once he gets like 2 items, the insane AS makes lulu's pixie proc so much...
Iirc pix has a hard AS cap around 2 Iirc. Not that it's not amazing with Kog anyway. But it's there
How has the season been going for everybody? I finally got around to finish my promos and... the teams I've been getting have been very hot/cold. Either everybody is super chill and the game is great or somebody is flaming/afking at the drop of the hat.
On February 17 2016 10:04 kongoline wrote: i cant wait till they make malph shit again, this champ is definition of braindead and unfun to play against
you know a champ is broken when he's considered a full on tank with some pretty heavy disruption and borderline has the damage to force a nasus out of lane lol No other tank comes even close to denting nasus' sustain
On February 17 2016 10:04 kongoline wrote: i cant wait till they make malph shit again, this champ is definition of braindead and unfun to play against
Which hard engage champ do you prefer? Endless sustain (when decent) Zac? Point and click/flash reliant Jarvan/Vi/Maokai/Ali? If you say Sion and Sejuani I can get on board, but that is still only 2 champs, one which Riot definitely hates.
On February 17 2016 10:04 kongoline wrote: i cant wait till they make malph shit again, this champ is definition of braindead and unfun to play against
Which hard engage champ do you prefer? Endless sustain (when decent) Zac? Point and click/flash reliant Jarvan/Vi/Maokai/Ali? If you say Sion and Sejuani I can get on board, but that is still only 2 champs, one which Riot definitely hates.
neither of them is as tanky and has AS slow for days, also i feel malphs laning phase is much stronger than any of them
On February 17 2016 12:33 cLutZ wrote: Well, yes, in that his laning phase is not so underpowered he cannot possibly be in lane with competently played FOTM tops.
I don't think scaling with defensive stats for offensive abilities should be a thing, Especially armor. Rammus' curl is fine, as it's a defensive ability, even though he gets a lot of his damage from armor.
On February 17 2016 12:33 cLutZ wrote: Well, yes, in that his laning phase is not so underpowered he cannot possibly be in lane with competently played FOTM tops.
I don't think scaling with defensive stats for offensive abilities should be a thing, Especially armor. Rammus' curl is fine, as it's a defensive ability, even though he gets a lot of his damage from armor.
I actually like it. It generates power curves in a game that is too afraid of them. Should it be on Malphite who is basically all about 6/11/16, or Vlad who is about surviving to lvl 7/9? Maybe not. It was definitely a cool feature on old Olaf though, and would be fun on Galio if they ever figured out how to not ruin him.
Jax's ult of course is the opposite but works well, Sejuani...has never been viable for long enough to know, Shen always has used it well and it wasn't really why he ever was FP/FB, etc. So IMO its a pretty good feature.
On February 17 2016 12:33 cLutZ wrote: Well, yes, in that his laning phase is not so underpowered he cannot possibly be in lane with competently played FOTM tops.
I don't think scaling with defensive stats for offensive abilities should be a thing, Especially armor. Rammus' curl is fine, as it's a defensive ability, even though he gets a lot of his damage from armor.
I actually like it. It generates power curves in a game that is too afraid of them. Should it be on Malphite who is basically all about 6/11/16, or Vlad who is about surviving to lvl 7/9? Maybe not. It was definitely a cool feature on old Olaf though, and would be fun on Galio if they ever figured out how to not ruin him.
Jax's ult of course is the opposite but works well, Sejuani...has never been viable for long enough to know, Shen always has used it well and it wasn't really why he ever was FP/FB, etc. So IMO its a pretty good feature.
I like Galio' way. where it provides additional efficiency to items but doesn't bolster your damage enough on it's own for it to be a thing to go pure MR. not the way malphite does it, where with armor he gains wave clear, lane control, and teamfight. The power curve for malphite is identical. it's just based on different stats.
You should adjust power curve with base numbers taking priority, not with scaling, that just adds even more multiplying things to the game. like how they did crit.
Seems like a fundamental thing. I want more multipliers. Like, a Jax who's passive is 10% of AR/MR into AD/AP. And maybe some kind of lifesteal/vamp into straight DR stat.
On February 17 2016 12:33 cLutZ wrote: Well, yes, in that his laning phase is not so underpowered he cannot possibly be in lane with competently played FOTM tops.
like who ? im sure he can go even vs pretty much anyone even cancers like quinn which hes stomping in lcs right now, not that he needs to be even in lane to stay relevant anyway
On February 17 2016 12:33 cLutZ wrote: Well, yes, in that his laning phase is not so underpowered he cannot possibly be in lane with competently played FOTM tops.
like who ? im sure he can go even vs pretty much anyone even cancers like quinn which hes stomping in lcs right now, not that he needs to be even in lane to stay relevant anyway
I'm saying he is the only one that can stay in lane against Fiora or Quinn. And seriously, its not very surprising that he gets picked with the heavy AD and minimal frontline comps that are FOTM. What I was asking is can ZAC lane against them? Amumu? Sejuani? He's getting picked because there is a niche that is needed, and he is the only viable candidate.
None of those champs scale insanely off armor though/gut attack speed. The closest thing to it is amumu's tantrum dropping in CD from AAs but its not really remotely the same.
Zac CAN lane against those champs but him being able to gank out of common ward placements is his niche as a engager so hes better off in the jungle. Other 2 are simply trash tier
That was kind of my point, that there is no suitable replacement for him in that niche right now. I don't think he's a problem, and actually can't remember a time he was. Maybe that DFG mid phase?
Well the w buff that makes him do physical dmg on autos+frozen fist+corrupting potion+new masteries have helped a lot with his lack of damage department.
Before his w was kinda useless compared to this new one.
which also shows why corki is pick/ban. Hmm adcs are good. but armor is countering us. Ok lets take this guy mid that does half/half of both damage with AA's and everything else does magic damage! Oh and he autowins a teamfight every 4 minutes (i forget the cd)
On February 18 2016 04:33 VayneAuthority wrote: which also shows why corki is pick/ban. Hmm adcs are good. but armor is countering us. Ok lets take this guy mid that does half/half of both damage with AA's and everything else does magic damage! Oh and he autowins a teamfight every 4 minutes (i forget the cd)
also another reason ez is pretty bueno
8 minutes then every 5
for one i know a concrete lol fact about numbers, thanks lcs!
Nerfing malphite just so that all the heavy ad cancer in this game can continue to dominate lane is the wrong way to look at things. Buffing other ap Top laners that can Bully malp like lissandra does will help top lane by bringing in more diversity (riot tm*)
I'm actually a little underwhelmed with dusk blade. Considering art the talk prepatch I was expecting it all the time but really it is a once in awhile purchase. No league of dusk
i think the problem is adc have access to broken itemization with huge amounts of free crit while every armor item got gutted, bruisers are in bad spot now because 1-2dmg items means u have not enough slots for armor nor dmg to burst sterak adc, that created situation where its better to go full yolo and build dmg over armor. Now u see champs like irelia,jax build 3-4 dmg items because u might as well try to one shot carries instead of trying to tank 2-3s more before dying. Pure tanks are ok early-mid game but late game they fall off the face of the earth and melt unless ur name is malph or rammus (who also die much faster compared to previous seasons), adc power spike too early and scale way too good riot tried fix it by buffing assassins but that didnt help because champs like lulu/janna/zilean etc exist, unless they change something we will keep seeing 4-6 adc per game
The problem with duskblade is its not a specialty item. it's an AD item with a bonus. Meaning it's just going to be bought on anyone who wants AD and Arpen. rather than those who want to use it to blow people up with the actipassive. It needed to be weighted more heavily on the actipassive and less on the stats. 15-20 Arpen 25-30 AD and a 25% missing HP burst every 60 seconds, with a kill from the pop only resetting it, and increasing the damage to 35% missing HP for the next activation, would be a better item for assassins than a generic item whose main use is oh another AD item, and it gives flat arpen.
The game just rewards safety right now, and punishes risk taking. so of course people are going to play ranged characters who can escape easily, and other champions that minimize risk. The reward from getting a kill is from the enemy dying, instead of the reward for the kill, which means its just about not dying, not killing.
giving it really crappy gold/slot efficiency based on stats would be the way to go, yeah
its also kind of ridiculous as a snowball item for AD assassins/ casters. like, at least with sword of the occult you had some risk and a ramp up period.
On February 18 2016 07:29 ticklishmusic wrote: giving it really crappy gold/slot efficiency based on stats would be the way to go, yeah
its also kind of ridiculous as a snowball item for AD assassins/ casters. like, at least with sword of the occult you had some risk and a ramp up period.
i think it's important for league to continue to separate gold and slot efficiency, after all the proposed item is very slot efficient, it's a high Arpen item, thats going to be slot efficient period, however having the low AD attached and a higher cost to pay for the execute means that the item is going to be expensive for the stat value
Also they again err'd on the side of safety with the reset. giving a reset if you don't use the damage from the duskblade, instead of giving the reset for optimal use of the duskblade. Making the item less about proper use (assassinating) and more about just being a straight increase in damage to whoever uses it. ADCs are far more likely to need the reset from poor use than assassins. If an assassin can kill someone in 2 seconds without the execute, then they aren't going to need it reset. but if they kill someone barely with it, thats when they would need the reset.
Even just that one change, without the cost/slot separation of lowering the AD and increasing the Arpen, would tip the balance more toward assassin and less toward safe damage boost.
the fear of risk or purely skill-based divisions in results for league has really been imprinting on league this season.
You're all talking about Duskblade, but in the linked video it doesn't do much, Qtpie doesn't even have it for most of it. It's the additional ArPen, and he'd be at around 50 without the dirk anyway, and you could already buy a dirk withtout completing duskblade.
What keeps him alive is the MoM's MR shield combined with the lifesteal on mages melee-ing him for true damage ~1.35 AD autos to the face (I'm not sure he had crit at that point?). There's the oneshot on Cait, but that's Q+auto+decree bursting her, not duskblade.
He had an hilarious game where he forgot to switch masteries and had 21 in defense, with strength of the ages. Legendary Guardian + Strength of the Ages + the fact that he itemised tanky (he went Ghostblade, MoM, Gauntlet, can't remember his BF item, swifties) let him survive the initial burst and stay alive throughout the entire fight. Facetank stuff, still deal good damage, and once MoM's passive is activated and Nidalee heals him to make sure he doesn't die immediatly, he gets another stack of True Grit off and you've got a ~200 armour/MR Graves with 10%+ lifesteal hitting you.
watching romanium play full ad renekton in challanger and solo carry games 1 shotting adcs makes me think ad renek is super underrated, he is basically assassin with better laning phase (enought to be played top), point and click stun and insane burst
On February 18 2016 09:33 kongoline wrote: watching romanium play full ad renekton in challanger and solo carry games 1 shotting adcs makes me think ad renek is super underrated, he is basically assassin with better laning phase (enought to be played top), point and click stun and insane burst
Watched a bit. Was snowballed as hell, but hard carried that game by just flashing onto lucian stunning into full combo. QSS didn't matter because double E just means he can get right back onto lucian, and ult+maw keeps him alive against a ton of burst.
On February 18 2016 09:33 kongoline wrote: watching romanium play full ad renekton in challanger and solo carry games 1 shotting adcs makes me think ad renek is super underrated, he is basically assassin with better laning phase (enought to be played top), point and click stun and insane burst
hows kindred this season ? i used to ban her every game because i seem to never win against her but in s6 i rarely see kindred played and her current winrate is only 46%, need new jungler on my smurf but dont want to sink 6.3k ip on weakish champion i wont ever want to play over elise/reksi who are my go to champs right now
On February 18 2016 22:14 kongoline wrote: hows kindred this season ? i used to ban her every game because i seem to never win against her but in s6 i rarely see kindred played and her current winrate is only 46%, need new jungler on my smurf but dont want to sink 6.3k ip on weakish champion i wont ever want to play over elise/reksi who are my go to champs right now
Pretty strong but her effectiveness depends on how well you can abuse her W and how stupid your team is with her R. If you're looking for other strong Markman junglers, Graves and Quinn are both pretty strong and a lot of fun to play. Quinn is 6300 though.
Well a good start for fixing ADCs would be nerfing essence reaver/making IBG melee only. I think that would mostly fix "the big 3" issue we have that is making ADC casters crowd out the others.
As for actually fixing the GAME itself, I have no idea. Riot dug itself a huge hole with the minion/tower/death timer changes. Obviously reverting everything would be cool but thats not gonna happen lol. It will be a while before the game is fixed. Somehow giving an incentive to lane would help a lot though, so we dont see the 4 man turret kills and no laning phase repeatedly. Dragon needs to be fixed obviously but they are clueless if they think the recent dragon changes did anything. It needs to give IMMEDIATE solid value like turrets do
On February 18 2016 23:39 VayneAuthority wrote: Well a good start for fixing ADCs would be nerfing essence reaver/making IBG melee only. I think that would mostly fix "the big 3" issue we have that is making ADC casters crowd out the others.
As for actually fixing the GAME itself, I have no idea. Riot dug itself a huge hole with the minion/tower/death timer changes. Obviously reverting everything would be cool but thats not gonna happen lol. It will be a while before the game is fixed. Somehow giving an incentive to lane would help a lot though, so we dont see the 4 man turret kills and no laning phase repeatedly. Dragon needs to be fixed obviously but they are clueless if they think the recent dragon changes did anything. It needs to give IMMEDIATE solid value like turrets do
My suggestion for the game:
1. Increase XP gain from kills by 40%/25%/20%/20%/20% for solo/2/3/4/5 champs near (total of 40/50/60/80/100% extra XP distributed amongst team). 2. Increase XP range for minion death by 350. 3. Increase kill/assist gold by 50+15 per rank of streak. 4. Increase Pink ward cost to 150 5. Decrease Yellow trinket duration (pre 9) to 25-30 seconds. Post 9 to 45-60 seconds. increase placement range 5a. Make blue trinket wards visible even within a bush 6. Decrease first tower hit damage to champions by 50% (second hit does the same amount as now) 7. Give first dragon between 10% and 25% Summoner CDR 8. Lower Flash CD to 240 seconds at base level.
I think encouraging fighting and reducing (slightly) risk of engaging would go a long way toward having actual interactive games.
On February 18 2016 23:39 VayneAuthority wrote: Well a good start for fixing ADCs would be nerfing essence reaver/making IBG melee only. I think that would mostly fix "the big 3" issue we have that is making ADC casters crowd out the others.
As for actually fixing the GAME itself, I have no idea. Riot dug itself a huge hole with the minion/tower/death timer changes. Obviously reverting everything would be cool but thats not gonna happen lol. It will be a while before the game is fixed. Somehow giving an incentive to lane would help a lot though, so we dont see the 4 man turret kills and no laning phase repeatedly. Dragon needs to be fixed obviously but they are clueless if they think the recent dragon changes did anything. It needs to give IMMEDIATE solid value like turrets do
My suggestion for the game:
1. Increase XP gain from kills by 40%/25%/20%/20%/20% for solo/2/3/4/5 champs near (total of 40/50/60/80/100% extra XP distributed amongst team). Teams will play even more passive, not wanting to give up kills 2. Increase XP range for minion death by 350. Dives will be harder to do, because targets will be a higher level than they currently are. 3. Increase kill/assist gold by 50+15 per rank of streak. See 1, change to "giving up assists" 4. Increase Pink ward cost to 150 People will be more defensive, not wanting to get caught due to low vision. 5. Decrease Yellow trinket duration (pre 9) to 25-30 seconds. Post 9 to 45-60 seconds. increase placement range 5a. Make blue trinket wards visible even within a bush See 4 6. Decrease first tower hit damage to champions by 50% (second hit does the same amount as now) Low players more likely to get poked out or range instead of straight up killed, lack of vision dissuades dives. 7. Give first dragon between 10% and 25% Summoner CDR TPs, TPs everywhere. 8. Lower Flash CD to 240 seconds at base level. More likely to flash away, since the cooldown is less punishing.
I think encouraging fighting and reducing (slightly) risk of engaging would go a long way toward having actual interactive games.
The problem with the game is that Dragon is pointless outside of 1st and 5th stacks, but the 1st one isn't all that great until 20mins into the game.(Have the 2/4th stack changes went in? IDK.)
Gahlo a lot of that just hasn't really ever been true.
1 you play passive to avoid consequences, not because the reward for a kill is higher. Increasing reward leads to increasing the activity that leads to the reward.
2 Increasing the XP range for minion death is to force actually pushing an opponent out of lane entirely, rather than just zoning them under tower and removing all interaction from the lane.
3 Not how it works. we could use the dota 2 changes a year ago to explain this as well. kill numbers shot up like crazy when implementing XP gain and gold gain increases, for good reason, rewards encourage activity. You don't avoid flashing for a kill because "i might trade him gold" you avoid it because "i'll be punished more than i receive"
4. Increasing pink ward cost increases your investment in your current positioning, making you more likely to fight over vision. i have no interest in what pubs do with their pinks, they probably won't even buy them anyway.
5a. making blue warded bushes visible to the ganker as they walk by changes nothing unless they are a ranged champion, in which case they can choose to avoid the ward or reveal themselves to remove it.
6. Making a player more likely to leave lane to heal is positive for interaction. it results in a tower death or major health lost and pressure elsewhere on the map. having players have a interaction free safe zone under tower does not.
7. Good. TPs mean people are having fights. fights = good.
8. Also more likely to flash in, or flash cancel spells to fight more. fighting = good. lowering cooldown, lowers the need to save it to avoid death.
Remember if (potential reward)*(chance of success) > (punishment of failure), then its the right choice to do the thing. increasing rewards always make the thing more desirable.
I suppose if you REALLY wanted to encourage dragons you could give aspect on each kill, increasing in effectiveness and duration each kill. first kill = 60 seconds of doubled bonuses and 30 damage over 5 seconds burn on attack. second kill = 90 seconds of doubled bonuses and 60 damage over 5 seconds burn on attack -> 5th dragon same as current.
On February 18 2016 23:39 VayneAuthority wrote: Well a good start for fixing ADCs would be nerfing essence reaver/making IBG melee only. I think that would mostly fix "the big 3" issue we have that is making ADC casters crowd out the others.
As for actually fixing the GAME itself, I have no idea. Riot dug itself a huge hole with the minion/tower/death timer changes. Obviously reverting everything would be cool but thats not gonna happen lol. It will be a while before the game is fixed. Somehow giving an incentive to lane would help a lot though, so we dont see the 4 man turret kills and no laning phase repeatedly. Dragon needs to be fixed obviously but they are clueless if they think the recent dragon changes did anything. It needs to give IMMEDIATE solid value like turrets do
My suggestion for the game:
1. Increase XP gain from kills by 40%/25%/20%/20%/20% for solo/2/3/4/5 champs near (total of 40/50/60/80/100% extra XP distributed amongst team). 2. Increase XP range for minion death by 350. 3. Increase kill/assist gold by 50+15 per rank of streak. 4. Increase Pink ward cost to 150 5. Decrease Yellow trinket duration (pre 9) to 25-30 seconds. Post 9 to 45-60 seconds. increase placement range 5a. Make blue trinket wards visible even within a bush 6. Decrease first tower hit damage to champions by 50% (second hit does the same amount as now) 7. Give first dragon between 10% and 25% Summoner CDR 8. Lower Flash CD to 240 seconds at base level.
I think encouraging fighting and reducing (slightly) risk of engaging would go a long way toward having actual interactive games.
Naa I dont think you need all these changes right now. All you are gonna do w/ these changes is make the game mad snowbally, and buff jungler presence early game even more. As it is, I personally think Riot hit the nail on the head w/ vision changes this season (its a fair amount of vision in the metgame right now). It doesnt serve as a cloying force that stifles plays anymore. I will say that as I see it the vast majority of the power is in the jungle role in terms of vision (stalkers) which i dont like, given how much a good jungler can impact the game as it stands.
I think that right now, in the Siege/Allin/splitpush trifecta of team comps, siege is broken overpowered. Its far easier to win the game by poking people off turrets than by any other method, mostly because being up inner turrets is far stronger than its ever been (which is in turn because of turret arm/mr buff changes). Thats just how the game is. Every champ in the current metagame is among the strongest at sieging, and waveclear is such a premium its insane. SKT lost G1 of their last series because they their poor waveclear got exploited incredibly hard for example.
If you want the meta to shift, turrets gotta be not made out of paper-mache. I get the changes and why they are necessary to some degree, but honestly i dont think turrets should lose 200 arm and mr because they got my turret down before 20 mins. The rate at which they lose their defense has to be gradual and then scale back up faster than it does. Inhib turret regen should be % based so regardless of armor so that stalling at turret actually has value over protracted periods of time. Turrets cannot give that much gold in the early game (the gold they give should scale with their tank stats increase over time). This game needs some level of defenders advantage again so that teamfights arent so inherently risky and arent so all and nothing.
Disagree with you on vision. IMO limited vision is the worst of all worlds. Either you should have 0 vision, and dying to a jungle gank should be mostly meaningless, or should have almost infinite and free and a successful gank very impactful. Right now ganks that work are high impact, but there is not nearly infinite vision so its a bit like every lane is gambling.
Also, yes. They either need to kill the waveclear of waveclear-having champions, buff the waveclear of those who dont (or make it less meaningful with some sort of fortify ALA DOTA), or let backdoor dives be totally viable even if you are even and only have a 1 man advantage.
On February 19 2016 07:20 cLutZ wrote: Disagree with you on vision. IMO limited vision is the worst of all worlds. Either you should have 0 vision, and dying to a jungle gank should be mostly meaningless, or should have almost infinite and free and a successful gank very impactful. Right now ganks that work are high impact, but there is not nearly infinite vision so its a bit like every lane is gambling.
Also, yes. They either need to kill the waveclear of waveclear-having champions, buff the waveclear of those who dont (or make it less meaningful with some sort of fortify ALA DOTA), or let backdoor dives be totally viable even if you are even and only have a 1 man advantage.
My thought process behind the suggested vision changes (early vision heavily limited, post 9 vision for temporary map control in a specific location).
Trinket wards are free, they'd be low risk with a longer range, you'd use them to set up a push later or spot a gank in advance early if you knew the gank timing. or control a bush for laning purposes temporarily, this time limit also helps to limit league of TP issues where one side gets a ward in the bush and for the next long while the other side has to play passive for fear of the TP.
This makes the role of trinket warding "what do i need right now with my vision"
The doubling of pink ward costs put pinks at the cost of about 1 non-siege wave of minions. Denying a pink ward with no repercussions is like denying an entire wave in lane of cash. that's an amount worth having a skirmish or fight about. it also makes a support who is skilled at clearing wards able to put an economic dent in the game, in a way they haven't been able to do since facilitating huge fights or picks in season 3. Pink wards would also be the main source of long term vision as invisible wards wouldn't be lasting long either way.
Wave clear is an issue, and that's fundamentally a problem with the way league functions. cheap spammable abilities that scale with items. if i can throw away 50-80 mana to clear a wave for 30 seconds it doesn't take much for that to be net neutral for me. and the gold i gain from it easily allows me to keep up with my scaling to continue to do so.
A rather random solution would be to have "break" points on towers at whatever percentages are deemed fair, when a tower is dropped to that level, the tower has something specific done to it.
maybe at 25% missing the tower ignores siege minions first maybe at 50% missing the tower has AOE damage to minions only, maybe at 75% missing the tower halves all spell (not magic, or physical, but spell) damage to minions nearby. stuff like that.
Or just add defenses to towers for each tower that has been destroyed. 25 armor/mres for each T1, 3.33 regen/s for each T2 missing, a regenerating 200 HP shield for each T3 tower.
On February 18 2016 10:46 cLutZ wrote: Zed top also is not bad. If you are into that sort of thing.
I remember people playing this a lot when it came out, and I think maxing E.
that was unrelated to top, E had better level scaling at the time
On February 18 2016 12:26 JimmiC wrote: I think dusk blade was pretty successful. Works on some option on others. Didn't break the game but added a little something extra.
I agree for now, but I think it was weaker in practice partially because people were rushing it, and I think by it's nature of doing more damage the more 1 combo does, it's just a terrible first item.
when people find a better place to fit it in builds it might end up being stronger than it seems at the moment.
Everyone's banning Kog now ugh why are ladder players such sheep. "Ban X I saw people banning it on stream therefore if you don't ban it I'll dodge!" ugh
On February 20 2016 00:21 Requizen wrote: Everyone's banning Kog now ugh why are ladder players such sheep. "Ban X I saw people banning it on stream therefore if you don't ban it I'll dodge!" ugh
because kog maw is as close to auto loss as it gets right now even if it isnt liike super abusable you dont want it in your game. Lost a game last night i would have won if kog didnt exist. He got fed bot and was 4-0 out of lane and even though we were wrecking he would literally kill our team in seconds
On February 20 2016 00:21 Requizen wrote: Everyone's banning Kog now ugh why are ladder players such sheep. "Ban X I saw people banning it on stream therefore if you don't ban it I'll dodge!" ugh
not to mention lower levels it's even worse because adcs are not great at kyteing to begin so make a dc who just does HUGE damage well standing still and it's huge because they were just standing still anyways lol
On February 20 2016 01:54 Inflicted wrote: So Yorick ult on 4th bullet Jhin makes every ghost auto proc the crit passive. Maybe we'll see it in LCS one day
I imagine Riot will tell teams not to do that if it's well known : P
do you think that counts as an abusable bug? my 5s team has been doing that occasionally for the past week since we have a yorick and jhin player. We just thought it was a funny gimmick
yorick has countless interactions people dont know about since hes so little played. For example this happens with jhin, but making 2 kalistas does not double her spear output, for some reason the ghost kalista doesnt give rend stacks so its a pretty shit combo.
Wasn't solo queue supposed to be out by now? Not that it matters much to me, I have no big complaints with the new system, but I thought that was the promise.
On February 20 2016 02:49 Requizen wrote: Wasn't solo queue supposed to be out by now? Not that it matters much to me, I have no big complaints with the new system, but I thought that was the promise.
wait so how are you supposed to use the interaction again?
wait till jhin is on his 4th bullet, and ult him and control his ghost that does auto crits? will jhin auto crit if he dies and takes control of ghost?
really curious since I have a friend who is a shit jhin player but is adamant on playing him in stacks and I would love to make him useful
On February 20 2016 02:49 Requizen wrote: Wasn't solo queue supposed to be out by now? Not that it matters much to me, I have no big complaints with the new system, but I thought that was the promise.
They confirmed a while back that they don't have an ETA and could take a few months
On February 20 2016 03:13 dsyxelic wrote: wait so how are you supposed to use the interaction again?
wait till jhin is on his 4th bullet, and ult him and control his ghost that does auto crits? will jhin auto crit if he dies and takes control of ghost?
really curious since I have a friend who is a shit jhin player but is adamant on playing him in stacks and I would love to make him useful
yea he has to die while on 4th bullet. Then he shoots unlimited 4th bullets when he comes back to life. give it a try in 3s since they are both decent champs there
On February 20 2016 03:13 dsyxelic wrote: wait so how are you supposed to use the interaction again?
wait till jhin is on his 4th bullet, and ult him and control his ghost that does auto crits? will jhin auto crit if he dies and takes control of ghost?
really curious since I have a friend who is a shit jhin player but is adamant on playing him in stacks and I would love to make him useful
yea he has to die while on 4th bullet. Then he shoots unlimited 4th bullets when he comes back to life. give it a try in 3s since they are both decent champs there
On February 20 2016 03:13 dsyxelic wrote: wait so how are you supposed to use the interaction again?
wait till jhin is on his 4th bullet, and ult him and control his ghost that does auto crits? will jhin auto crit if he dies and takes control of ghost?
really curious since I have a friend who is a shit jhin player but is adamant on playing him in stacks and I would love to make him useful
yea he has to die while on 4th bullet. Then he shoots unlimited 4th bullets when he comes back to life. give it a try in 3s since they are both decent champs there
Oh it works after you die too? I was talking about the ghost when the Jhin is still alive, he shoots unlimited 4th too
Kinda stupid question but when you stack up Seekers Armguard/Steraks armguard or w/e its called it gives you the same stats as the completed item correct? The bonus doesnt stack on top after completing it?
On February 20 2016 15:57 MooMooMugi wrote: Kinda stupid question but when you stack up Seekers Armguard/Steraks armguard or w/e its called it gives you the same stats as the completed item correct? The bonus doesnt stack on top after completing it?
kinda? the stacking passive disappears along with the HP it gave you, but the bonus hp from that stacking element is often included in the final item's base stats. for example seekers armguard is 45 armor and 35 AP when fully stacked, NLR is 60 AP, the final zhonyas is 100 AP and 50 armor. the combine cost is 1050 for 5 AP and and the active. you do not get a benefit for stacking the item before completing if that is what you are asking. the zhonyas effect is essentially valued at ~ 900-950 gold.
Steraks gives 25% Base AD, 50 HP and the passive for 1100 gold and 15 flat AD.
so steraks gives between -5 AD and +27 AD on upgrade depending on champion and level. probably about +10 on average, so the passive is valued at about 600.
I think Riot should embrace tank akali and not do thier usual thing and tamp down players who are doing things "wrong" like with tank Katarina. When I look at Akali's kit it actually makes sense as kind of tanky momentum bruiser.
I had tried tanky akali for a while, never went titantic hydra though. i gave up because i like CC too much, i wasn't enjoying it. this was also still during teleport meta though.
On February 21 2016 03:33 MuddyJam wrote: With dynamic que is anybody else having a lot of champions selects where the jungler doesn't pick smite? This is happening way too often it seems atm.
Mostly because every time somebody dodges it resets your summoners. If you played top last game, went into champ select as jungle, dodge, and jungle again, it's easy to forget.
its annoying and i almost think riot needs to put a warning about having smite. "you have selected jungler, are you sure you don't want smite" and "you are toplane, are you sure you want smite".
And I think that looking at your summoner spells before the game starts when you have plenty of time, because first you declare champion, then there are bans and then you pick ur champ is enough to check if you picked a goddamn smite or not. I mean, come on, you don't have to be a smartass to notice that you don't have a smite picked, wow.
On February 21 2016 14:55 739 wrote: And I think that looking at your summoner spells before the game starts when you have plenty of time, because first you declare champion, then there are bans and then you pick ur champ is enough to check if you picked a goddamn smite or not. I mean, come on, you don't have to be a smartass to notice that you don't have a smite picked, wow.
Maybe that's exactly why people don't check their summoners. I always do but I often forget to change masteries and runes because I keep thinking "nah I'll do it later, champ select takes so long I don't have to hurry"
On February 21 2016 03:33 MuddyJam wrote: With dynamic que is anybody else having a lot of champions selects where the jungler doesn't pick smite? This is happening way too often it seems atm.
Mostly because every time somebody dodges it resets your summoners. If you played top last game, went into champ select as jungle, dodge, and jungle again, it's easy to forget.
The only problem I see with it is the stupid inconsistency... When someone dodges, your masters and runes DON'T get reset but your summoners DO.
Because you generally change runes/masteries and summoners at the same time, I've several times locked in, glanced and runes and masteries to confirm and saw they were correct, and then ended up in game with heal or tp instead of ignite, because I'd changed runes and summoners the previous lobby, but summoners had reset.
I get that it's technically my fault, but it's incredibly un-intuitive and bad UI design...
I get that it's technically my fault, but it's incredibly un-intuitive and bad UI design...
This season I have gotten into the habit of setting my mastery page up every game, don't have any saved because it's so easy to forget and have the wrong one, might as well go through a double check procedure. Same with summoners, since they reset every dodge so I explicitly check them every time.
I've seen a few tank akali's and they just tend to not do very much.
I played one yesterday (it was normals though, and she wasn't particularly good) as Graves top, and she did eventually become very annoying to play against, my harass didn't feel like it was hitting for much, but she suffers against champions that can harass and disengage her. She's not free LP, you have to know what you're doing.
is poppy still considered strong after the nerfs? i ask cuz i played 50min game where as 5k hp reksi titanic hydra etc couldnt even touch enemy poppy in 1v1 when she killed me in seconds with full tank wtf?
nasus deals with poppy easily if youre having trouble with her. Once mid game rolls around 1v1s with her turn into a shit stomp where you can come out with 90% hp on even footing. Its a good lane for 1v2ing later. Still annoying in teamfights though since her ult negates your ult basically if charged
On February 23 2016 04:28 VayneAuthority wrote: nasus deals with poppy easily if youre having trouble with her. Once mid game rolls around 1v1s with her turn into a shit stomp where you can come out with 90% hp on even footing. Its a good lane for 1v2ing later. Still annoying in teamfights though since her ult negates your ult basically if charged
I've been on the poppy end of this. It's not fun. It's not fun at all..
On February 23 2016 02:06 739 wrote: BTW if anyone is interested, gold shop is updated with new items ~~
Boots of Speed are 325g in the shop what is this broken system
i should have invested in boots when they were cheaper then sold for extra gold #gameisbroken
Got to play the market big guy!
Watched some IwillDominate stream today he was pretty chill and positive. Is this not the same guy who was once banned from league play for like super toxicity? I wonder what changed in his life/ mindset? Just maturity perhaps?
IWD is pretty interesting because he's used as an example by riot of their system working, when his "harassment score" only increased once he started getting put into the tribunal.
He used N word and "jew" as insults to players who didn't do their job in game and screwed up. he was also at the same of his perma, the target of a report war. it really screwed over dignitas at the time. ruined their chance that they had to win NA. riot also quoted "out of game" stuff as a reason for his ban, which was pretty much him celebrating a win a little excessively (screaming to pump himself up post game and smashing his own headset after beating CLG)
he still competed outside of LCS though, and honestly the lack of impact of his ban on his competitive career (it punished Dig more than him at the time) is probably why riot moved to kill other leagues and establish their monopoly. they didnt want to ban good players and lose some of the best players in the world to other events just because they weren't polite.
On February 23 2016 02:06 739 wrote: BTW if anyone is interested, gold shop is updated with new items ~~
Boots of Speed are 325g in the shop what is this broken system
i should have invested in boots when they were cheaper then sold for extra gold #gameisbroken
Got to play the market big guy!
Watched some IwillDominate stream today he was pretty chill and positive. Is this not the same guy who was once banned from league play for like super toxicity? I wonder what changed in his life/ mindset? Just maturity perhaps?
when i watched him earlier he was still passive-aggressively bitching about whoever wasn't in the dynamic queue with him and dyrus and some other guy
On February 23 2016 02:06 739 wrote: BTW if anyone is interested, gold shop is updated with new items ~~
Boots of Speed are 325g in the shop what is this broken system
i should have invested in boots when they were cheaper then sold for extra gold #gameisbroken
Got to play the market big guy!
Watched some IwillDominate stream today he was pretty chill and positive. Is this not the same guy who was once banned from league play for like super toxicity? I wonder what changed in his life/ mindset? Just maturity perhaps?
Streaming actually helps you not get reported because no one reports your random swears etc. And you don't really notice someone who is pissed for 5 minutes of a 35 min game when he talks the whole time. Because typing words is so rare (a voice chat between 5 people moves like twitch chat during LCS) it causes any one word to linger.
On February 23 2016 02:06 739 wrote: BTW if anyone is interested, gold shop is updated with new items ~~
Boots of Speed are 325g in the shop what is this broken system
i should have invested in boots when they were cheaper then sold for extra gold #gameisbroken
Got to play the market big guy!
Watched some IwillDominate stream today he was pretty chill and positive. Is this not the same guy who was once banned from league play for like super toxicity? I wonder what changed in his life/ mindset? Just maturity perhaps?
when i watched him earlier he was still passive-aggressively bitching about whoever wasn't in the dynamic queue with him and dyrus and some other guy
On February 23 2016 10:24 JimmiC wrote: So if you have rage issues talk instead of typing and you will be fine!
Talking to yourself is pretty creepy to me. I read it many times, that some people yell at their computer to vent their frustration, but I just can't imagine myself arguing with my computer.
It's that much less creepy than arguing with some random online? Some one for all you know could be some 12 year old or 40 year old? Creepy either way better that no one knows and you do it to yourself.
if riot really cared about reducing "toxicity" in game, they'd implement voice chat. straight up so much less would be misconstrued as toxic, and the rest would just be muted and problem solved. but they don't really care now that they have automated systems to handle it for them.
Guess depends on your age and opinion I'd find it creepy if someone was cussing out a 12 year old and is older then 14 . Cussing out 14 older than 16 and so on. And then any over 25 cussing out anyone online is fucked up. Like messing with them or trash talk i get but like wishing there death and clear rage is creepy.
On February 24 2016 00:32 JimmiC wrote: It's that much less creepy than arguing with some random online? Some one for all you know could be some 12 year old or 40 year old? Creepy either way better that no one knows and you do it to yourself.
I think it makes sense in a psychological way that it is more effective to vent your frustration to the person that caused it, instead of pretending to do it. Your brain gets relieved that you delivered a wake-up call to someone you consider ignorant.
I haven't chatted much lately, but here's my last game for instance. Our ezreal mid is 1-5 and complaining he can't do shit vs Udyr. He was completely ignorant to the fact that he played horrendously, and not only missed 70% of his Qs, sometimes he managed to shot them at the opposite direction, and every skirmish started with him getting caught. With Ezreal. I guess (at least for some of us) the fact that he will summarize that game as "gg Udyr, what could I have done" is even more annoying, than the initial frustration of him simply being bad.
That's a different question that while nagging your crying teammate might be more satisfying initially, then just talking to a lifeless machine, it can create a back-and-forth argument with mindless personal bashings which eventually make you even more annoyed than if you would have just kept silent.
I really don't see a golden rule how to handle some of these players. Mute is always nice, but you can still see your teammtes talking with him, like "are you serious???" "dude, he teleported, chill..." etc.
Man, I just don't know how people play squishy junglers. I know it's nice having another adc or whatever, but I feel like I have 200% more impact with tanky junglers than I do when playing Quinn or Kindred or even Elise when building her more tanky.
On February 24 2016 02:27 Requizen wrote: Man, I just don't know how people play squishy junglers. I know it's nice having another adc or whatever, but I feel like I have 200% more impact with tanky junglers than I do when playing Quinn or Kindred or even Elise when building her more tanky.
On February 24 2016 02:27 Requizen wrote: Man, I just don't know how people play squishy junglers. I know it's nice having another adc or whatever, but I feel like I have 200% more impact with tanky junglers than I do when playing Quinn or Kindred or even Elise when building her more tanky.
Play Graves, best of both worlds.
But I'm a silver sheep and quit playing him after the nerfs
On February 24 2016 02:27 Requizen wrote: Man, I just don't know how people play squishy junglers. I know it's nice having another adc or whatever, but I feel like I have 200% more impact with tanky junglers than I do when playing Quinn or Kindred or even Elise when building her more tanky.
Play Graves, best of both worlds.
But I'm a silver sheep and quit playing him after the nerfs
I would also say, depending on how you play your solo lane should dictate what kind of jungler you play as well. If you play tanky top laners, and safe midlaners, chances are you're not very good at playing out squishy/unsafe junglers. Stick with picks that already synergize with how you know how to play out the game.
On February 24 2016 02:27 Requizen wrote: Man, I just don't know how people play squishy junglers. I know it's nice having another adc or whatever, but I feel like I have 200% more impact with tanky junglers than I do when playing Quinn or Kindred or even Elise when building her more tanky.
get fed, then build deadmans and be unkillable cause you're ahead.
On February 24 2016 02:27 Requizen wrote: Man, I just don't know how people play squishy junglers. I know it's nice having another adc or whatever, but I feel like I have 200% more impact with tanky junglers than I do when playing Quinn or Kindred or even Elise when building her more tanky.
Play Graves, best of both worlds.
But I'm a silver sheep and quit playing him after the nerfs
I would also say, depending on how you play your solo lane should dictate what kind of jungler you play as well. If you play tanky top laners, and safe midlaners, chances are you're not very good at playing out squishy/unsafe junglers. Stick with picks that already synergize with how you know how to play out the game.
That's the strange thing - I queue Jungle/Bot. When I go bot, I do pretty well playing those squishy carries, but as soon as I take them to the Jungle or even Top it doesn't click. Just odd I suppose.
On February 24 2016 02:27 Requizen wrote: Man, I just don't know how people play squishy junglers. I know it's nice having another adc or whatever, but I feel like I have 200% more impact with tanky junglers than I do when playing Quinn or Kindred or even Elise when building her more tanky.
get fed, then build deadmans and be unkillable cause you're ahead.
Yeah man, Deadman on Burr or Amumu and I just walk around dragging my team behind me. Fun times.
On February 24 2016 00:32 JimmiC wrote: It's that much less creepy than arguing with some random online? Some one for all you know could be some 12 year old or 40 year old? Creepy either way better that no one knows and you do it to yourself.
I think it makes sense in a psychological way that it is more effective to vent your frustration to the person that caused it, instead of pretending to do it. Your brain gets relieved that you delivered a wake-up call to someone you consider ignorant.
I haven't chatted much lately, but here's my last game for instance. Our ezreal mid is 1-5 and complaining he can't do shit vs Udyr. He was completely ignorant to the fact that he played horrendously, and not only missed 70% of his Qs, sometimes he managed to shot them at the opposite direction, and every skirmish started with him getting caught. With Ezreal. I guess (at least for some of us) the fact that he will summarize that game as "gg Udyr, what could I have done" is even more annoying, than the initial frustration of him simply being bad.
That's a different question that while nagging your crying teammate might be more satisfying initially, then just talking to a lifeless machine, it can create a back-and-forth argument with mindless personal bashings which eventually make you even more annoyed than if you would have just kept silent.
I really don't see a golden rule how to handle some of these players. Mute is always nice, but you can still see your teammtes talking with him, like "are you serious???" "dude, he teleported, chill..." etc.
Except that if your doing it all the time the person you are really raging at is you since you are the constant factor the people you play with change every time. Half the time when I'm smurfing the guy is getting mad at someone who actually made the right play. And higher up it is more a case of 2 people thinking something different is optimal and they both have different information so from both perspectives they are probably right. When they both do what tehy want it fails and they are mad at each other. Than there is another group who is mad at like a missed hook or something, which is really funny because they happen all the time even in lcs. Expecting perfection from teammates while not delivering it yourself is also being a dickwad.
On February 24 2016 00:32 JimmiC wrote: It's that much less creepy than arguing with some random online? Some one for all you know could be some 12 year old or 40 year old? Creepy either way better that no one knows and you do it to yourself.
I think it makes sense in a psychological way that it is more effective to vent your frustration to the person that caused it, instead of pretending to do it. Your brain gets relieved that you delivered a wake-up call to someone you consider ignorant.
I haven't chatted much lately, but here's my last game for instance. Our ezreal mid is 1-5 and complaining he can't do shit vs Udyr. He was completely ignorant to the fact that he played horrendously, and not only missed 70% of his Qs, sometimes he managed to shot them at the opposite direction, and every skirmish started with him getting caught. With Ezreal. I guess (at least for some of us) the fact that he will summarize that game as "gg Udyr, what could I have done" is even more annoying, than the initial frustration of him simply being bad.
That's a different question that while nagging your crying teammate might be more satisfying initially, then just talking to a lifeless machine, it can create a back-and-forth argument with mindless personal bashings which eventually make you even more annoyed than if you would have just kept silent.
I really don't see a golden rule how to handle some of these players. Mute is always nice, but you can still see your teammtes talking with him, like "are you serious???" "dude, he teleported, chill..." etc.
Except that if your doing it all the time the person you are really raging at is you since you are the constant factor the people you play with change every time. Half the time when I'm smurfing the guy is getting mad at someone who actually made the right play. And higher up it is more a case of 2 people thinking something different is optimal and they both have different information so from both perspectives they are probably right. When they both do what tehy want it fails and they are mad at each other. Than there is another group who is mad at like a missed hook or something, which is really funny because they happen all the time even in lcs. Expecting perfection from teammates while not delivering it yourself is also being a dickwad.
I'm not saying raging at your teammates is a great way to handle these situations, I was just trying to show how venting to myself does absolutely nothing. Even the very few cases when I actually damaged a hardware was when we were taking turns IRL in racing games, and I was taken over at the last turn in a long race (edit: to clarify: I was taken over by an AI opponent, thus losing the race). When I'm alone, my ceiling is taking a big sigh, but that's all.
It would be different if I was streaming, because even if I only had let's say 10 viewers, talking about how X or Y annoys me in my team could actually calm me down.
Honestly, I try to communicate as little as possible. After a while you know which kind of people it's worth trying to talk to, and which are just better off to let loose in the chat.
On February 24 2016 14:43 ticklishmusic wrote: is that the thing made by the dude who quit his job to do it
iirc there was something like it back in s2 as well
Sure is. I remember what you're talking about, the Ask Mr. Robot thing that sucked ass. It was a real letdown after having used their WoW one previously.
wish we had sandbox, there are so many builds i want to compare on kindred (devourer vs warrior variants) but i cant do it reliable in soloQ cuz it takes so long and every game is different
On February 24 2016 00:32 JimmiC wrote: It's that much less creepy than arguing with some random online? Some one for all you know could be some 12 year old or 40 year old? Creepy either way better that no one knows and you do it to yourself.
I think it makes sense in a psychological way that it is more effective to vent your frustration to the person that caused it, instead of pretending to do it. Your brain gets relieved that you delivered a wake-up call to someone you consider ignorant.
I haven't chatted much lately, but here's my last game for instance. Our ezreal mid is 1-5 and complaining he can't do shit vs Udyr. He was completely ignorant to the fact that he played horrendously, and not only missed 70% of his Qs, sometimes he managed to shot them at the opposite direction, and every skirmish started with him getting caught. With Ezreal. I guess (at least for some of us) the fact that he will summarize that game as "gg Udyr, what could I have done" is even more annoying, than the initial frustration of him simply being bad.
That's a different question that while nagging your crying teammate might be more satisfying initially, then just talking to a lifeless machine, it can create a back-and-forth argument with mindless personal bashings which eventually make you even more annoyed than if you would have just kept silent.
I really don't see a golden rule how to handle some of these players. Mute is always nice, but you can still see your teammtes talking with him, like "are you serious???" "dude, he teleported, chill..." etc.
Except that if your doing it all the time the person you are really raging at is you since you are the constant factor the people you play with change every time. Half the time when I'm smurfing the guy is getting mad at someone who actually made the right play. And higher up it is more a case of 2 people thinking something different is optimal and they both have different information so from both perspectives they are probably right. When they both do what tehy want it fails and they are mad at each other. Than there is another group who is mad at like a missed hook or something, which is really funny because they happen all the time even in lcs. Expecting perfection from teammates while not delivering it yourself is also being a dickwad.
I'm not saying raging at your teammates is a great way to handle these situations, I was just trying to show how venting to myself does absolutely nothing. Even the very few cases when I actually damaged a hardware was when we were taking turns IRL in racing games, and I was taken over at the last turn in a long race (edit: to clarify: I was taken over by an AI opponent, thus losing the race). When I'm alone, my ceiling is taking a big sigh, but that's all.
It would be different if I was streaming, because even if I only had let's say 10 viewers, talking about how X or Y annoys me in my team could actually calm me down.
Honestly, I try to communicate as little as possible. After a while you know which kind of people it's worth trying to talk to, and which are just better off to let loose in the chat.
You of all people should know that "barking" at your teammates can just make them afk in fountain. All of this talk seems to skirt around the central problem, which is just that people have to grow up and learn to control their emotions like a mature adult. People don't "tilt" because they can't help themselves getting angry, they "tilt" because they like being angry. Anger is a vice that makes us feel good, a lot like fatty foods or cigarettes. That's like how 95% of clickbait works.
On February 24 2016 14:58 739 wrote: I've posted this Theorycraftr link like month ago and ppl said it sucks and it just looks fancy, nothing else, kek.
its a nice ui but the math is all stuff i could do in an excel sheet.
and if the math is wrong like ketara said its kinda wothless
On February 24 2016 00:32 JimmiC wrote: It's that much less creepy than arguing with some random online? Some one for all you know could be some 12 year old or 40 year old? Creepy either way better that no one knows and you do it to yourself.
I think it makes sense in a psychological way that it is more effective to vent your frustration to the person that caused it, instead of pretending to do it. Your brain gets relieved that you delivered a wake-up call to someone you consider ignorant.
I haven't chatted much lately, but here's my last game for instance. Our ezreal mid is 1-5 and complaining he can't do shit vs Udyr. He was completely ignorant to the fact that he played horrendously, and not only missed 70% of his Qs, sometimes he managed to shot them at the opposite direction, and every skirmish started with him getting caught. With Ezreal. I guess (at least for some of us) the fact that he will summarize that game as "gg Udyr, what could I have done" is even more annoying, than the initial frustration of him simply being bad.
That's a different question that while nagging your crying teammate might be more satisfying initially, then just talking to a lifeless machine, it can create a back-and-forth argument with mindless personal bashings which eventually make you even more annoyed than if you would have just kept silent.
I really don't see a golden rule how to handle some of these players. Mute is always nice, but you can still see your teammtes talking with him, like "are you serious???" "dude, he teleported, chill..." etc.
Except that if your doing it all the time the person you are really raging at is you since you are the constant factor the people you play with change every time. Half the time when I'm smurfing the guy is getting mad at someone who actually made the right play. And higher up it is more a case of 2 people thinking something different is optimal and they both have different information so from both perspectives they are probably right. When they both do what tehy want it fails and they are mad at each other. Than there is another group who is mad at like a missed hook or something, which is really funny because they happen all the time even in lcs. Expecting perfection from teammates while not delivering it yourself is also being a dickwad.
I'm not saying raging at your teammates is a great way to handle these situations, I was just trying to show how venting to myself does absolutely nothing. Even the very few cases when I actually damaged a hardware was when we were taking turns IRL in racing games, and I was taken over at the last turn in a long race (edit: to clarify: I was taken over by an AI opponent, thus losing the race). When I'm alone, my ceiling is taking a big sigh, but that's all.
It would be different if I was streaming, because even if I only had let's say 10 viewers, talking about how X or Y annoys me in my team could actually calm me down.
Honestly, I try to communicate as little as possible. After a while you know which kind of people it's worth trying to talk to, and which are just better off to let loose in the chat.
You of all people should know that "barking" at your teammates can just make them afk in fountain. All of this talk seems to skirt around the central problem, which is just that people have to grow up and learn to control their emotions like a mature adult. People don't "tilt" because they can't help themselves getting angry, they "tilt" because they like being angry. Anger is a vice that makes us feel good, a lot like fatty foods or cigarettes. That's like how 95% of clickbait works.
It's easier said than done, and there are many layers to it. Whether you play solely for fun, and advancing in ranks are secondary, or you are tryharding because ranking >> all, you will get annoyed by many of the brats you are matched with or against. Either they are ruining your fun, or they are hindering your chances of an otherwise easy climb. And there is a difference at barking at somebody for simply being bad and somebody who is extremely obnoxious. What does "grow up" means exactly? Grown up people should not care about if someone kicks their birthday cake off the table, or they should have no competitive sense whatsoever, so if they are having yet another needlessly hard game, because someone is spamming ff20 since minute 5 because he got killed once, they should be just like "this is good!" ?
As an example, I had a game yesterday on my smurf, where basically all my teammates were the definitions of various life-threatening diseases. Jayce kept talking to the enemy Vlad in all chat that he only died because Vlad brought ignite, and ignite top = L O L. And for 2 minutes followed our master yi in his jungle and stole his blue, because master said sth he did not like. Vayne kept wishing cancer to yi, because according to her he only came to bot lane to ks. Master yi kept arguing with bith Jayce and Vayne in team-chat, and kept complaining in all-chat how they are stupid. Our support Morg eventually started to spam ff and surrender vote, even though she was pretty quiet before. Now, there was me, and trust me, you would have been proud of me, because I was as mature as possible. My only two lines in the game were "no need" in response to a gank attempt and "mid no flash". Being mature is good, because when the enemy jungler dives you from behind in your mid outer tower and he and the mid-laner keep changing turret aggro with flashes, and even though I survived the initial dive, I couldn't run anywhere, so they just rushed me down again, while Yi was standing idle at our blue, talking to the enemy team how Vayne is stupid, but at least I did not say anything offensive to these fine individuals. After all, it would have been terrible if one of them were to go afk instead of spamming: - get cancer - this ignite.... you suck - guys, it's not me, it's vayne and jayce, report pls - ff you idiots
Sometimes I wonder if some of you but especially Lyte play the same game as I do. Like, what if I eventually snapped and said "stfu" to one of them? Or what if I would make an argument that my play has been progressively deteriorating as my teammates successfully managed to whirlwind the game into chaos, or in other words, I was tilted? Would you just sit next to me, and calmly explain that I am not actually tilted because I've been playing 1v2 mid lane for 10 minutes now, watching them run away with 50 hp, while my teammates keep arguing about the most ridiculous things, but because I just LOVE being angry. Yeah, right.
Now, I wasn't actually tilted in that game because I was completely apathetic, but saying that there is no such thing as tilt, once again, is just bullshit. Yes, what eventually tilts you depends on your psychological fortitude, but everyone has a limit, and I dare to say that in a game like this, many many tilts are completely understandable.
On February 24 2016 23:49 Gahlo wrote: Now that PD has becomes super cheap, what are peoples thoughts on trying that out on Marksmen junglers over RFC?
The thing about RFC is that the main reason you get it is that it makes your gameplay easier for you. the range increase lets you get away with things you couldn't normally, and it helps you siege better. Runaan's is straight better in every other way (more single target damage over the length of time charging the RFC from the 15 bonus on hit, and better passive stats, and the whole runaans bolts thing). PD is better in every stat way as well, but it doesn't make the use much easier. and the way it's special passive functions is just crappy.
PD's movespeed and damage reduction needs to have a longer duration and larger range to make it an option over just how much easier RFC makes your life.
I would rather they just ignored pd. Last thing we need is more fucking free tankyness for le marksmen. Guess it isn't bad for splitpushing but overall meh.
Nerfing maw really needs to happen too not sure why it hasn't yet.
On February 25 2016 00:20 nafta wrote: I would rather they just ignored pd. Last thing we need is more fucking free tankyness for le marksmen. Guess it isn't bad for splitpushing but overall meh.
Nerfing maw really needs to happen too not sure why it hasn't yet.
I think weighting PD more like old Ionic spark would be a better direction for the passive, a movespeed/HP item sort of a compliment to Frozen Mallet, though legacy reasons dictate that it remain an ADC item as distasteful as that is.
Maw i think is fine,Though the way it's design drags it in so many directions, it could quickly become a problem, and is a serious block toward future designs, like penetration is in the first place.
It's a damage item as signified by the armor penetration, that has an anti-magic anti-burst bend to it.BUT it also stacks the shield with resistances and then provides old rageblade effect when triggering. Splitting it into two items would be better. a Berserker sword/axe/weapon that gives stats for being low, maybe combine it with death's dance to make that item not weird and out of place as well. and a penetration item that protects against magic, hell just make the anti-magic shield an active that lasts a short duration.
The real reason maw is overtuned and absurd is directly due to thunderlord's. Even assassins with all physical damage deal magic damage due to thunderlords, so it is pretty much always going to proc. Thunderlords basically also made armor only pages top obsolete. That mastery in general has added a lot of bad design and problems.
So are we now all in agreement that Duskblade is a pretty shitty item? Or, at the very least, it isn't anywhere near the broken OP everyone said it would be, that it hasn't "broken the game" and require hotfixes ASAP?
Then it's probably a good time to go back and have a good laugh reading the first posts in this topic and the last posts of the previous topic. And we can all be reminded of how many people on this board are no better than Redditors in knowing basically jack shit about this game but who will never miss an opportunity to try to sound superior.
On February 25 2016 00:59 VayneAuthority wrote: The real reason maw is overtuned and absurd is directly due to thunderlord's. Even assassins with all physical damage deal magic damage due to thunderlords, so it is pretty much always going to proc. Thunderlords basically also made armor only pages top obsolete. That mastery in general has added a lot of bad design and problems.
wut... A riven dealing 60 magic damage (more like 40 after basic resists) once at level 4 is nowhere near enough to warrant running mr lol
On February 25 2016 00:59 VayneAuthority wrote: The real reason maw is overtuned and absurd is directly due to thunderlord's. Even assassins with all physical damage deal magic damage due to thunderlords, so it is pretty much always going to proc. Thunderlords basically also made armor only pages top obsolete. That mastery in general has added a lot of bad design and problems.
wut... A riven dealing 60 magic damage (more like 40 after basic resists) once at level 4 is nowhere near enough to warrant running mr lol
thats a terrible example though, and riven is usually paired with something like elise or nid so you end up having to take it anyway. I mean for stuff like poppy where you would much prefer to just take armor but it makes the lane unbearable between the passive/thunderlords. With mr though poppy lane becomes a joke.
On February 25 2016 01:09 Requizen wrote: Duskblade would be really good if it wasn't a passive you basically have no control over.
I like the item's build up and price point, but yeah if there was a better way to control the passive it would be nice. I know this wouldn't fly but I would have it so that the passive is applied on hit for one target every x seconds (x being a super long time) then have an active portion that pops with the damage you done to a target after y seconds since you have applied the mark to the target. The active would have a long CD as well.
also a lot of the champs it would be good on are kinda in a bad place... and the ones it is good on dont need it anyways (graves, rengo, etc.). its not bad with zed though from what i've seen. having an active that can't be activated is super weird though.
I don't think Duskblade is nearly as bas as people think. Like sure the people who thought it was broken op were wrong but i think now it's swung all the way to underrated. A big part of the problem is people where so hyped up on how op it was they were rushing it As a first item I'd say duskblade is difinitively trash and dumb to smoke.
As people work it into builds better i think people will find it useful in certain situations. Romanium considers it the de facto 4th item for ad Renekton and I also gind there are gamestates where it's the best 4th or 5th item on wukong.
I know scrumm ditched the item after a day or two but i wouldn't be surprised to see him work it back in as a later item.
Tl;dr Duskblade not op, but workable as a late game item on several occasions
yea people are just using it wrong. It's not an assassin item who already has 100-0 potential, its a wukong, ad renek, etc lategame bruiser item to give them that extra burst
yea shen jungle will very much be a thing next patch. He's too feast or famine for a tank now in top lane to be worth playing there, easy to counterpick and fuck. But in jungle, well he'll just be strong.
On February 25 2016 06:29 nafta wrote: How does getting damage that you previously didn't have not change anything lol? Aoe that scales with 12% of bonus hp lol.
don't forget a huge thing with E's passive part. where dealing damage with it gives you energy back, now you can restore 6x that value per camp instead of 3.
I was thinking about a lot of these tops who rise up to challenger and so forth with carry tops and than are forced into tank rolls. Maybe teams need to start looking for people who main tanks in solo que even if they are lower ranked on the ladder? At least they will be very comfortable with those champs? Not sure it would work but it does seem like the current system of grabbing the highest ranked top and then putting them on completely different champs.
On February 25 2016 09:26 JimmiC wrote: I was thinking about a lot of these tops who rise up to challenger and so forth with carry tops and than are forced into tank rolls. Maybe teams need to start looking for people who main tanks in solo que even if they are lower ranked on the ladder? At least they will be very comfortable with those champs? Not sure it would work but it does seem like the current system of grabbing the highest ranked top and then putting them on completely different champs.
The problem with running tank tops in solo queue. is they require teamwork to function these days outside of absolutely OP champs (like when mundo would win almost every game he got picked at the top of the ladder). this is the role riot wants them to have. but it means that in a game already trying to divorce itself from individual skill as the primary factor in a game, the top lane struggles even more as riot tries to remove as many aspects of running the tank style top that rely on individual skill as opposed to coordination. Of course the top players all run carry champs, its the only way they can show they are the top players when playing alone. picking from a lower skill bracket from only tank mains would be trying to play the lottery. "I hope this guy was actually good enough to be pro but not able to show it in game because of his champion choice"
1) it is harder to rank up without carry champs. so naturally you have a smaller pool to pick from if you are looking for mainly 'tank' players in soloq 2) it is easier to learn how to play tank champs than it is to play carry champs. if you can play fiora/irelia/etc at a high challenger level, you probably have the ability to learn malphite maokai. not that that isn't true vice versa, but it is definitely more difficult and time consuming to pick up higher skill cap carry champs.
the problem with tanks top they dont tank at all late game also why play them when u can just play ranged champ with steraks/MaW be semi tank with carry dmg btw with upcoming steraks nerf do u guys think its better to buy mallet now? its 400gold more for extra 250hp, way higher AD which scales with all skills unlike steraks and slow effect.
I agree in theory but in practice it has not worked. I wonder if league will create advanced stars to try to unearth who are the top tank players. Like how they find good defensive defenceman in nhl. Or the "gravity" stat in nba.
I mean having the most goals and assists in the whl does not always translate to being best nhl. I'm not saying I have a solution just wondering if teams will employ scouts and they might start look for specific skills
On February 25 2016 10:04 JimmiC wrote: I agree in theory but in practice it has not worked. I wonder if league will create advanced stars to try to unearth who are the top tank players. Like how they find good defensive defenceman in nhl. Or the "gravity" stat in nba.
I mean having the most goals and assists in the whl does not always translate to being best nhl. I'm not saying I have a solution just wondering if teams will employ scouts and they might start look for specific skills
just because LCS teams have such an unstable environment they can't afford to keep a top laner for more than a split or two before needing to bail for a known player or risk compromising all of their income, doesn't mean recruiting is flawed.