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On June 24 2015 13:45 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2015 12:45 StarStruck wrote: The point is none of them are even close to being good enough in their positions. It doesn't matter who's show it is in NA atm. Both those teams are lackluster and their scores have very little meaning with how poor a lot of the games have been.
It's just not a good situation and Regi realizes that. There needs to be drastic improvement and a team like TSM has to try new things to create better synergy between the team if they have any hope of taking games off the Chinese and Korean teams.
C9 isn't even relevant atm and I don't think they're going to be relevant for a while. As for TL.. they're having a hard time even beating the teams higher up than them when those teams are playing sub par. Sure those games were close, but you still went 0-2 last week. Like come on. It's pretty bad the good thing is a lot of the players realize this and take it in jest. Now they got to act upon it. Keep in mind that TSM with Amazing was good enough to take a game off of SSW and nobody is SSW right now.
I don't recommend using that game as an example for anything, ever.
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On June 24 2015 14:02 HyperST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2015 13:45 Gahlo wrote:On June 24 2015 12:45 StarStruck wrote: The point is none of them are even close to being good enough in their positions. It doesn't matter who's show it is in NA atm. Both those teams are lackluster and their scores have very little meaning with how poor a lot of the games have been.
It's just not a good situation and Regi realizes that. There needs to be drastic improvement and a team like TSM has to try new things to create better synergy between the team if they have any hope of taking games off the Chinese and Korean teams.
C9 isn't even relevant atm and I don't think they're going to be relevant for a while. As for TL.. they're having a hard time even beating the teams higher up than them when those teams are playing sub par. Sure those games were close, but you still went 0-2 last week. Like come on. It's pretty bad the good thing is a lot of the players realize this and take it in jest. Now they got to act upon it. Keep in mind that TSM with Amazing was good enough to take a game off of SSW and nobody is SSW right now. I don't recommend using that game as an example for anything, ever. China and Korea, while the clear favorites, are overrated.
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I expect Turtle to drop a quadra kill next week
I think he's just tilting. It's one thing for your mechanics and champ mastery to decline or fall behind, but it's impossible to just simply forget positioning. The argument could be made that the change in the meta has some impact, but it's not enough to explain everything.
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On June 24 2015 14:08 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2015 14:02 HyperST wrote:On June 24 2015 13:45 Gahlo wrote:On June 24 2015 12:45 StarStruck wrote: The point is none of them are even close to being good enough in their positions. It doesn't matter who's show it is in NA atm. Both those teams are lackluster and their scores have very little meaning with how poor a lot of the games have been.
It's just not a good situation and Regi realizes that. There needs to be drastic improvement and a team like TSM has to try new things to create better synergy between the team if they have any hope of taking games off the Chinese and Korean teams.
C9 isn't even relevant atm and I don't think they're going to be relevant for a while. As for TL.. they're having a hard time even beating the teams higher up than them when those teams are playing sub par. Sure those games were close, but you still went 0-2 last week. Like come on. It's pretty bad the good thing is a lot of the players realize this and take it in jest. Now they got to act upon it. Keep in mind that TSM with Amazing was good enough to take a game off of SSW and nobody is SSW right now. I don't recommend using that game as an example for anything, ever. China and Korea, while the clear favorites, are overrated.
Hey man, anyone can take a single game off someone with a little bit of luck but to say they're overrated. Nah especially when it comes to a best of.
Let the best team win.
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Yeah I don't think that the KR or CN scenes are overrated at all, they're clearly ahead of the rest of the world by a wide margin. I think Regi is making a good decision putting Keith out there to motivate WT, but I still think that unless WT reclaims his S3 form there's no chance of this iteration doing anything at worlds. They need to hit a groove in the worlds meta (whatever it may be by then) and play absolutely out of their minds to achieve anything noteworthy. Just too small of a chance, but if Regi doesn't say he's aiming for worlds then he's betraying his own personal ambition. To put it frankly, he could just keep shooting for #1 NA and hopefully he gets to beat up on EU teams when he gets to face them and TSM would still be wildly successful.
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I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented.
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On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that.
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On June 25 2015 06:36 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp.
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On June 25 2015 06:37 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2015 06:36 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp. Too bad he can't hit skillshots.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 25 2015 06:37 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2015 06:36 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp.
Pobelter got Challenger in Korea, proceeded to have worst split in his LCS career. Dun dun dun.
I'm pretty sure that part of community who understands things (or tries to do it) have already agreed that infrastructure > players at this point, therefore Korea can be still relevant even after losing like 50 players to other regions and so on. But saying that Faker, Mata, Meiko, Koro1 and at least like 20-30 players ain't more talented than their LCS counterparts? Oh, please.
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On June 25 2015 06:41 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2015 06:37 Gahlo wrote:On June 25 2015 06:36 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp. Too bad he can't hit skillshots.
(Skill)Shots fired pewpewpew
+ Show Spoiler +
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On June 25 2015 06:47 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2015 06:37 Gahlo wrote:On June 25 2015 06:36 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp. Pobelter got Challenger in Korea, proceeded to have worst split in his LCS career. Dun dun dun. I'm pretty sure that part of community who understands things (or tries to do it) have already agreed that infrastructure > players at this point, therefore Korea can be still relevant even after losing like 50 players to other regions and so on. But saying that Faker, Mata, Meiko, Koro1 and at least like 20-30 players ain't more talented than their LCS counterparts? Oh, please. Yeah, I'm not saying Western players are some how innately unable to play at that level, the problem is that there's no good way of developing that talent in the West, and considering how fucking stacked talent is on the top team of the East compared to the West, it's just easier to say "Eastern players are more talented".
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They have more players, so they have more talent. They are also better at making that talent play well enough so we can see it.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 25 2015 07:12 Ansibled wrote: They have more players, so they have more talent. They are also better at making that talent play well enough so we can see it.
This is bullshit, holy shit.
There is a common rhetorical question in Russia when our national team is losing. "Hey, we have almost 150 millions people here but somehow we still have same 3 defenders as dozen years ago, how can it happen, can't we grow at least, 5-10 more?"
If Western regions lack infrastructure, they're not willing to train harder and harder and streaming culture is way more cool, it's not problem of less amount of players. I don't think people legit can argue that Froggen, Bjergsen, Doublelift or WildTurtle ain't talented enough to be world contenders. It's not problem of talent, it's other things.
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On June 25 2015 07:17 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2015 07:12 Ansibled wrote: They have more players, so they have more talent. They are also better at making that talent play well enough so we can see it. This is bullshit, holy shit. There is a common rhetorical question in Russia when our national team is losing. "Hey, we have almost 150 millions people here but somehow we still have same 3 defenders as dozen years ago, how can it happen, can't we grow at least, 5-10 more?" If Western regions lack infrastructure, they're not willing to train harder and harder and streaming culture is way more cool, it's not problem of less amount of players. I don't think people legit can argue that Froggen, Bjergsen, Doublelift or WildTurtle ain't talented enough to be world contenders. It's not problem of talent, it's other things. And Korea alone has more ranked players than EUW or NA. If Joe Random has a .05% chance of being pro quality(complete out of the ass statistic, the actual value doesn't matter.) having more players will provide more talent. That's why Korea is able to stay in a decent shape when most of their tier 1 players leave.
EU has talent, but can't cultivate it well because the orgs there are barely even trying with coaching staff. NA doesn't have talent for a variety of reasons, but the orgs here are more likely to be at least trying to figure out coaching. Meanwhile Korea has about a decade head start when it comes to scouting talent and is past a lot of the trial and error of how to coach effectively. The West doesn't lack support staff because it isn't trying, it's because they're trying to build a boat while they sail it.
Streaming is the result of the lack of non-endemic sponsors. Why do you think challenger 1 trick ponies stream? Because it's more fun, and usually, they can make more money doing that as opposed to going pro.
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i thought this was pretty hilarious.
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Worth to mention that TSM announcement video got 4.955 likes and 8.712 dislikes. Some people really hate Keith right now, especially WT fanboys l o l.
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There's always a giant backlash against Regi/TSM when somebody is getting booted.
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On June 25 2015 07:01 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2015 06:47 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On June 25 2015 06:37 Gahlo wrote:On June 25 2015 06:36 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp. Pobelter got Challenger in Korea, proceeded to have worst split in his LCS career. Dun dun dun. I'm pretty sure that part of community who understands things (or tries to do it) have already agreed that infrastructure > players at this point, therefore Korea can be still relevant even after losing like 50 players to other regions and so on. But saying that Faker, Mata, Meiko, Koro1 and at least like 20-30 players ain't more talented than their LCS counterparts? Oh, please. Yeah, I'm not saying Western players are some how innately unable to play at that level, the problem is that there's no good way of developing that talent in the West, and considering how fucking stacked talent is on the top team of the East compared to the West, it's just easier to say "Eastern players are more talented".
East develops its talent the same way the West does, kids just playing Soloq. This game is not so insanely complex that like, our players are just getting outplayed individually. People stupidly just see one team doing better than another and then think that must mean the players on the winning team are individually better, which at the highest level at least is actually very rarely the case.
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On June 25 2015 09:15 LimpingGoat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2015 07:01 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2015 06:47 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On June 25 2015 06:37 Gahlo wrote:On June 25 2015 06:36 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp. Pobelter got Challenger in Korea, proceeded to have worst split in his LCS career. Dun dun dun. I'm pretty sure that part of community who understands things (or tries to do it) have already agreed that infrastructure > players at this point, therefore Korea can be still relevant even after losing like 50 players to other regions and so on. But saying that Faker, Mata, Meiko, Koro1 and at least like 20-30 players ain't more talented than their LCS counterparts? Oh, please. Yeah, I'm not saying Western players are some how innately unable to play at that level, the problem is that there's no good way of developing that talent in the West, and considering how fucking stacked talent is on the top team of the East compared to the West, it's just easier to say "Eastern players are more talented". East develops its talent the same way the West does, kids just playing Soloq. This game is not so insanely complex that like, our players are just getting outplayed individually. People stupidly just see one team doing better than another and then think that must mean the players on the winning team are individually better, which at the highest level at least is actually very rarely the case. The difference is soloqueue stars in the East get picked up by teams and developed.
When was the last time being #1 in NA meant you got a shot into a team? The closest thing we've seen was Rhux winning a 1v1 tourney.
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