Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
On the pbe they had added the damage taken from w and put it on q so you couldn't max 1 skill for waveclear and assasination power. This is just wow, like let's even pretend the amount of base damage nerf was ok because w base should have been nerfed, what's with the ratio nerf on what was already considered a mediocre late game hero?
They gave Yasuo a 30% speedboost? Why would they do that. They gutted exhaust for botlane, but not against assasins? Isn't that the exact opposite of what they wanted? Plus they didn't touch anything OP except LB. I'm very confused about this patch.
“I only wake up when it's time to squash something. And I'm awake right now.”
... yeaaah, Riot hasn't gotten any better at writing characters, uh. And that's to say the least. Not that they're better for themselves: "(we put Galio's old ult on his W, xD)", really?
On March 08 2017 06:00 Sent. wrote: It's like they want people to play in Leblanc in a certain way but don't realize that way isn't viable in their game.
I don't even know what that "certain way" is. Thats my issue right now. I get she was OP, and the old Leblanc had a terrible Pro/SoloQ winrate split, but I don't know what that goal is.
I think they want her to be focused around gaining advantages from tricking people into missing skillshots or burning their cooldowns. It's a bit like Zed where they said they want him to be able all-in people after chunking them down with shurikens except with Leblanc her opponents are meant to be out of cooldowns instead of hp.
It's not working because her damage is in her "tricks" so if she can use those tricks to deal damage then she has no reason to "deceive" people because she can just kill them and if she uses those tricks to force mistakes she's not dealing damage which makes her useless. I don't even know how you're supposed to "deceive" anyone without attacking him but it seems like their goal.
On March 08 2017 09:38 Sent. wrote: I think they want her to be focused around gaining advantages from tricking people into missing skillshots or burning their cooldowns. It's a bit like Zed where they said they want him to be able all-in people after chunking them down with shurikens except with Leblanc her opponents are meant to be out of cooldowns instead of hp.
It's not working because her damage is in her "tricks" so if she can use those tricks to deal damage then she has no reason to "deceive" people because she can just kill them and if she uses those tricks to force mistakes she's not dealing damage which makes her useless. I don't even know how you're supposed to "deceive" anyone without attacking him but it seems like it's their goal.
If that's the case the fix is actually quite simple: Lower the CD, Damage, and Mana Cost on W, make Q her primary waveclear device (basically just make it into a better Ryze E), and load a shit-ton of damage onto E and make its CC lock in instantly if you hit a double Chain.
On March 08 2017 09:38 Sent. wrote: I think they want her to be focused around gaining advantages from tricking people into missing skillshots or burning their cooldowns. It's a bit like Zed where they said they want him to be able all-in people after chunking them down with shurikens except with Leblanc her opponents are meant to be out of cooldowns instead of hp.
It's not working because her damage is in her "tricks" so if she can use those tricks to deal damage then she has no reason to "deceive" people because she can just kill them and if she uses those tricks to force mistakes she's not dealing damage which makes her useless. I don't even know how you're supposed to "deceive" anyone without attacking him but it seems like it's their goal.
If that's the case the fix is actually quite simple: Lower the CD, Damage, and Mana Cost on W, make Q her primary waveclear device (basically just make it into a better Ryze E), and load a shit-ton of damage onto E and make its CC lock in instantly if you hit a double Chain.
This is (sort of) what was on the pbe but instead they kept every w nerf and cut almost all of the q buffs
Her Q does have higher wave clear now though. She might be ok because she can burst kids with E Q RQ not to bad regardless. She might need to build like a ludens first though.
what the fuck at the leblanc changes. the only way riot is going to get what they want is if they also change w cd to match the current rank 5 cd or someshit and let leblancs max q/e for damage without sacrificing movement. in this state the champion is dogshit
On March 08 2017 11:28 iCanada wrote: Her Q does have higher wave clear now though. She might be ok because she can burst kids with E Q RQ not to bad regardless. She might need to build like a ludens first though.
Still a massive nerf though.
Her Q waveclear is too dependent on W right now to work in the "fantasy" because you need precharged minions for it to bounce. Q would need to both "burst" and setup. So it needs to have a way of spreading malice on its own.
On March 08 2017 11:28 iCanada wrote: Her Q does have higher wave clear now though. She might be ok because she can burst kids with E Q RQ not to bad regardless. She might need to build like a ludens first though.
Still a massive nerf though.
Her Q waveclear is too dependent on W right now to work in the "fantasy" because you need precharged minions for it to bounce. Q would need to both "burst" and setup. So it needs to have a way of spreading malice on its own.
On March 08 2017 11:28 iCanada wrote: Her Q does have higher wave clear now though. She might be ok because she can burst kids with E Q RQ not to bad regardless. She might need to build like a ludens first though.
Still a massive nerf though.
Her Q waveclear is too dependent on W right now to work in the "fantasy" because you need precharged minions for it to bounce. Q would need to both "burst" and setup. So it needs to have a way of spreading malice on its own.
So...Ryze 2.0?
Yes, thats why I said "Ryze E". If you don't want her W to be part of her burst combo (essential to making an "evasion mage") then you make her Q do all the waveclear work, and move her assassination power onto hitting a E>R combo (aka 2 decently hard to hit skillshots).
l0l jfc, someone plz tell me when the last time a champion was gutted as drastically as this.
I can only think of Eve or Olaf coming close. [/QUOTE]
Kindred is probably the most recent.
Like 15 armor nerf level 1, halted her armor growth, then removed the 50 hp at level 1 heal proc in the same patch after already nerfing her in 3 or 4 straight patches. She was straight up busted at the time, but that patch hit her winrate by like 8% or something like that. From 54% winrate killing all to worst jungle winrate in game.
I'm actually really surprised how much I saw her yesterday. Even if people find a way to use her I thought her playrate would tank off the patch notes.
It's real real bad because she feels unplayable with the rank 1 18s W CD, so you can't even Qmax because the CD is just so long you can't use it to trade aggressively without being zoned for a good 10s afterwards when the other guys shit is off CD.
It's a double wammy; your mobility nerfed by a factor of and you deal less damage.
It's real real bad because she feels unplayable with the rank 1 18s W CD, so you can't even Qmax because the CD is just so long you can't use it to trade aggressively without being zoned for a good 10s afterwards when the other guys shit is off CD.
It's a double wammy; your mobility nerfed by a factor of and you deal less damage.
The answer is obvious...
Just trick the enemy laner into thinking you're winning lane and they'll back off and play under their turret. Use her power of deception.
Q, W, and E stay about the same, but with higher base damages on them.
R completely reworked. Summons a clone of leblanc. Lasts until it dies.
Clone is indistinguishable from lb
Takes 100% increased damage.
Control clone with alt-click, r->q/w/e to make the clone cast those spells. r->r causes a poof of smoke, and if lb is nearish clone swaps places. Clones cd's are identical to LB's.
Clone does 10/20/30% of leblancs damage and cc duration.
Clone will not be able to gain gold/exp.
Cooldown of like 140/120/100 starting after the death of the clone.
seems like it would be near impossible to play properly. takes 100% increase damage would mean it gets 1 shot or 2 shot way too easily and on top of that to be able to meaningfully use the clone to get multiple spells out of him while you also have to use your own champ during a late game 5v5 teamfight seems like something even faker would struggle to pull off
I dont know why they did not try to fix these champs through their utility instead of damage, let her be a damage monster, but make her W on 30 sec CD or the return W on 5 sec CD or make her auto attack range close to melee, things like this, just raise the risk for her and it will probably balance out. The numbers i put were purely random i did not really think over them
Honestly this nerf is probably playable if they flatten w cool down to rank 5 cd. However that sounds super dumb to give a hero that mobility at level 1 even if the DMV attached is minimal. (At level 1 her autos do more than w)
But until she can mark the minions once per wave q max isn't viable and without q max she does 0 damage
Yeah that's the major thing. She really really needs the W cd. So she's fucked for damage if she goes W first, or she has no mobility to gank / trade cute in label if she goes Q.
She feels like a champion you play to bm. Like Tryndamere mid probably has more win conditions. Maybe they want her to be an adc. Her auto animation is nice.
On March 11 2017 04:33 Ansibled wrote: I think the old Leblanc was a lot of fun and after the silence removal was mostly balanced, I'd much rather see Leblanc return to that.
I also didn't mind that model of Leblanc. I used to be a pretty consistent Leblanc player when she had the silence as well, and think it was fine, but I've always thought they should make her more Chains-Centric instead of the Q and W focused styles previous rebalancings have driven players to.
Imo you remove all damage from her W at all. Let Q clear waves with mediocrity, then add a damage amp while they chained. No chain, no kill. W becomes a 1 point wonder.
Then shE is an assassin that can only really kill 1 thing at a time, but she can be very proficient at it. And she can still be a lane bully.
On March 11 2017 07:42 iCanada wrote: Imo you remove all damage from her W at all. Let Q clear waves with mediocrity, then add a damage amp while they chained. No chain, no kill. W becomes a 1 point wonder.
Then shE is an assassin that can only really kill 1 thing at a time, but she can be very proficient at it. And she can still be a lane bully.
Much easier to balance.
That's basically my thoughts as well. Make W basically Graves' smokescreen for mobility (I think there are technical reasons you need it to do at least 1 damage, but maybe that changed).
On March 11 2017 07:42 iCanada wrote: Imo you remove all damage from her W at all. Let Q clear waves with mediocrity, then add a damage amp while they chained. No chain, no kill. W becomes a 1 point wonder.
Then shE is an assassin that can only really kill 1 thing at a time, but she can be very proficient at it. And she can still be a lane bully.
Much easier to balance.
That's basically my thoughts as well. Make W basically Graves' smokescreen for mobility (I think there are technical reasons you need it to do at least 1 damage, but maybe that changed).
Iirc it's for tower aggrieved and recalls, for example zilian bomb does 1 true damage on latch to prevent ridiculous tower pressure
I missed this but it's kind of interesting, not sure how much I agree with some of it though balancing for viewership seems kind of ehh and they've had some really awful metas to watch.
On March 14 2017 08:27 evilfatsh1t wrote: is that meant to be a troll post or is he just that good at lb where he can still make it work
A combination of people overreacting and him being good I suppose. He's maxing Q first now. From what I can search up his only loss on LB after nerf has been his team feeding their ass off.
On March 14 2017 08:27 evilfatsh1t wrote: is that meant to be a troll post or is he just that good at lb where he can still make it work
A combination of people overreacting and him being good I suppose. He's maxing Q first now. From what I can search up his only loss on LB after nerf has been his team feeding their ass off.
well yeah, everyone from bronze to challenger knew that you had to max q first now. it still doesnt solve the fact that your mobility skill is 15 seconds long and does a measly 100dmg.
On March 14 2017 22:49 JimmiC wrote: For Mid especially its amazing how pro play and solo q are the inverse here is bottom winrate for mid
1 Ryze 38 2 Leb 43 3 Azir 43 4 Corki 47 5 vik 47
Bot 5 are practically the top 5 for pros. And zed shows up at 8th worst winrate. LOL (for plat and above according to champion.gg)
Cant really say I'm surprised, except about Viktor, they are all champions with a fairly high skillfloor and you have to play around as a team. Likewise Shen for instance has a pretty low winratio in yoloQ too - appearently in last patch only Ryze and Aatrox had worse ratios in toplane lol.
On March 15 2017 01:25 GrandInquisitor wrote: Plus remember all the players that are like I WANT TO HARD CARRY MY BRONZE 3 PROMOS ON RYZE JUST LIKE BJERGSEN CARRIED TSM.
In general I think it's probably a problem if a top pro pick is popular AND does well in solo queue.
I also don't find a problem with the distinction. It disappoints me it comes up as a supposed problem so often. Not just here(if that's what is even happening) but by riot themselves at times.
People like to say its bronze's but the stats are for Plats a higher. So I get there is a big difference between play and challanger but these are people who understand the basics of the game. It has more to do with the team work and communication of the pro teams I think. And team based strategies. Like good luck tell your team I'm playing ryze mid lets worry about the macro game and unlock my power 30 mins or whatever.
Solo Q champs better do well early. We have all been in games when its like 3-1 and you got people going GG or I'm done and they are allready in full tilt poor me mode.
On March 15 2017 02:26 JimmiC wrote: People like to say its bronze's but the stats are for Plats a higher. So I get there is a big difference between play and challanger but these are people who understand the basics of the game. It has more to do with the team work and communication of the pro teams I think. And team based strategies. Like good luck tell your team I'm playing ryze mid lets worry about the macro game and unlock my power 30 mins or whatever.
Solo Q champs better do well early. We have all been in games when its like 3-1 and you got people going GG or I'm done and they are allready in full tilt poor me mode.
Your point is well-taken as to Rek'Sai, Tahm Kench, Shen, etc., but I'm making a slightly different point, which is that people always copy the pros, and that in and of itself lowers those champions' winrate regardless of what champion it is. Even solo queue heroes suffer when they get popular in LCS.
Ryze is also, frankly, terrible to learn to play and requires good rune setups (IMO) to get to work even moderately well. His waveclear and teamfight DPS require much greater patience than can be expected in a chaotic soloQ situation where you have little teammate trust (and the Ult is obvious). The best Ryze for soloq was the old old ryze that just bopped people with Q all day.
On March 15 2017 02:26 JimmiC wrote: People like to say its bronze's but the stats are for Plats a higher. So I get there is a big difference between play and challanger but these are people who understand the basics of the game. It has more to do with the team work and communication of the pro teams I think. And team based strategies. Like good luck tell your team I'm playing ryze mid lets worry about the macro game and unlock my power 30 mins or whatever.
Solo Q champs better do well early. We have all been in games when its like 3-1 and you got people going GG or I'm done and they are allready in full tilt poor me mode.
Your point is well-taken as to Rek'Sai, Tahm Kench, Shen, etc., but I'm making a slightly different point, which is that people always copy the pros, and that in and of itself lowers those champions' winrate regardless of what champion it is. Even solo queue heroes suffer when they get popular in LCS.
that is somewhat true. But I think its more true that they are simply different games. Coordination and communication change what is powerful and relevant. Sure maybe the winrates drop 2% or something when people try out what they see in lcs. But it doesn't explain 37%. And more than that it is just interesting that right now it is basically a inverse relationship between what is popular in LCS and what is losing in solo q.
For me with Ryze I keep telling myself that champ will get nerfed before I master it. Ie the rework before this one where that literally happened. Except instead of nerfed they reworked him.
On March 15 2017 04:24 Slusher wrote: For me with Ryze I keep telling myself that champ will get nerfed before I master it. Ie the rework before this one where that literally happened. Except instead of nerfed they reworked him.
Isn't every attempt to balance Ryze literally a rework? :^)
I honestly dont think they will ever be able to make a balanced version with their current f a n t a s y of him.
I can't imagine they would nerf him at his current winrate. Prob just leave him as is. Since he is played in pro and solo Q. and just let his winrate suck for solo q.
Ok so I played the "new" Aatrox in an ARAM. I'm amazed at how much worse he feels now (please forgive the fact that it is just once in an ARAM). I feel like if they did all the changes but left Bloodwell alone he would feel very fun to play.
For me, the biggest problem with LB is her 1 point in E but still does half your HP because of passive. I think they could have kept her W damage and done something with her passive and she would have been OK.
I mean what they did (hilariously) is workable, damage to champions isn't he problem now, she just has issues landing damage and safely farming before 13, which sounds ok but her lategame wasn't really good before and this does not buff it.
I mean they want all assasins to take more than a fraction of a second to kill now, that's why sigil is gone. The problem is late game a lot of other champions can just kill you in that window.
Meanwhile mages with late game burst are still one cycling people without putting their bodies at risk. So yea I'd basically take the pre assasin update version of all of them except maybe kat.
anyway I'm just glad there aren't 3 op edge of nights per team every game rendering Fizz literally unplayable.
On March 17 2017 21:55 JimmiC wrote: Pretty sure the funniest moments in LOL right now are when WW misses a ult. It looks hilarious as he flies by
I love when his Q follow a flash under a tower, I know I laughed when I did it. The lols were worth giving my lane opponent first blood. Haven't done or seen it vs TP yet, but would love to.
Vi ended the game with 0 damage dealt to champions. This isn't rounded down - I checked the API and she legit just never damaged an enemy champion. But somehow Vi got an assist! The game is from 2016, so plants are out of the question. Her only items are blue smite warrior, boots, ruby crystal, and a long sword. She obviously doesn't have an Exhaust.
Vi ended the game with 0 damage dealt to champions. This isn't rounded down - I checked the API and she legit just never damaged an enemy champion. But somehow Vi got an assist! The game is from 2016, so plants are out of the question. Her only items are blue smite warrior, boots, ruby crystal, and a long sword. She obviously doesn't have an Exhaust.
???
Do you have the replay available?
If so could you not just watch the replay until her Assist-gold splashed and figure it out from there?
Vi ended the game with 0 damage dealt to champions. This isn't rounded down - I checked the API and she legit just never damaged an enemy champion. But somehow Vi got an assist! The game is from 2016, so plants are out of the question. Her only items are blue smite warrior, boots, ruby crystal, and a long sword. She obviously doesn't have an Exhaust.
???
Do you have the replay available?
If so could you not just watch the replay until her Assist-gold splashed and figure it out from there?
No, the game is from Feb 2016, a more innocent time when we didn't have replays or sandbox.
Vi ended the game with 0 damage dealt to champions. This isn't rounded down - I checked the API and she legit just never damaged an enemy champion. But somehow Vi got an assist! The game is from 2016, so plants are out of the question. Her only items are blue smite warrior, boots, ruby crystal, and a long sword. She obviously doesn't have an Exhaust.
???
I would guess that she smite/hit one of zac's reviving blobs and it may be not counted as damage since he doesnt have the original health bar then, but its just a guess
On March 18 2017 00:43 VayneAuthority wrote: My only guess is that she commenced ult on some one but died before reaching them, not sure if that counts as an assist.
The assist might have come from the knockback it does to others as you are running to the target if I had to guess.
Vi ended the game with 0 damage dealt to champions. This isn't rounded down - I checked the API and she legit just never damaged an enemy champion. But somehow Vi got an assist! The game is from 2016, so plants are out of the question. Her only items are blue smite warrior, boots, ruby crystal, and a long sword. She obviously doesn't have an Exhaust.
???
I would guess that she smite/hit one of zac's reviving blobs and it may be not counted as damage since he doesnt have the original health bar then, but its just a guess
On March 18 2017 00:43 VayneAuthority wrote: My only guess is that she commenced ult on some one but died before reaching them, not sure if that counts as an assist.
On March 19 2017 08:06 Slusher wrote: Tfw you Flame a Draven for rushing bork, then see arrow build it a couple days later. Is that the build now?
Doesn't surprise me really. They just increased its damage and lifesteal. Small nerf on the AS and active, but ADCs that want high damage stat can finally use it and benefit from increased AS.
there's so many lulu duoq abusers in solo q right now its actually insane. I've had to start banning lulu just because of all the trash spamming twitch/kog and lulu in masters
and she always had that upside of shutting down any bullshit fed assassin its a really nice 'insurance' when the enemy team has this 1 fed diver and you just polymorph exhaust him. its super great in soloq
im seeing lulu being pretty commonly banned in like all elo's though. from like gold to diamond.
the pix thing is what did it in combination with hyper carries being on the rise again and proc abusers like ez/lucian.
lvl 1 pix damage is downright oppressive now, and level 1 advantage is huge in controlling bot lane. She is obviously good at later stages of the game but previously struggled early. She now has no weak point.
Because the visuals don't communicate that it's an AoE, it doesn't fit in the theme of what TLD is supposed to be, the AoE is so small that it may as well be single-target, and basically no one knows that it's an AoE.
On March 21 2017 04:43 GrandInquisitor wrote: Because the visuals don't communicate that it's an AoE, it doesn't fit in the theme of what TLD is supposed to be, the AoE is so small that it may as well be single-target, and basically no one knows that it's an AoE.
Kind of feels like your splitting hairs, and a bolt of lightning does damage the surround area not just where it hits, so from the end it does fit thematically.
On March 21 2017 04:43 GrandInquisitor wrote: Because the visuals don't communicate that it's an AoE, it doesn't fit in the theme of what TLD is supposed to be, the AoE is so small that it may as well be single-target, and basically no one knows that it's an AoE.
I'm not sure if it still exists but there was a YouTube video of Bjergson testing it when it came out and it's hilariously small. Like phasing required to hit 2 things small.
On March 21 2017 04:43 GrandInquisitor wrote: Because the visuals don't communicate that it's an AoE, it doesn't fit in the theme of what TLD is supposed to be, the AoE is so small that it may as well be single-target, and basically no one knows that it's an AoE.
It literally tells you it's AoE in the description.
On March 21 2017 04:43 GrandInquisitor wrote: Because the visuals don't communicate that it's an AoE, it doesn't fit in the theme of what TLD is supposed to be, the AoE is so small that it may as well be single-target, and basically no one knows that it's an AoE.
It literally tells you it's AoE in the description.
"dealing magic damage in the area"
Did I claim that the description didn't say that? It does, and yet I bet that if you polled 100 random Dia+ League players, > 90 of them would not know that TLD is an AoE.
It's just so bizarre! Why is it AoE at all if it's so ridiculously tiny that no one could possibly notice it in-game? Like, is its tiny effect on Jax E / spell vamp really worth it?
On March 21 2017 04:43 GrandInquisitor wrote: Because the visuals don't communicate that it's an AoE, it doesn't fit in the theme of what TLD is supposed to be, the AoE is so small that it may as well be single-target, and basically no one knows that it's an AoE.
It literally tells you it's AoE in the description.
"dealing magic damage in the area"
Did I claim that the description didn't say that? It does, and yet I bet that if you polled 100 random Dia+ League players, > 90 of them would not know that TLD is an AoE.
It's just so bizarre! Why is it AoE at all if it's so ridiculously tiny that no one could possibly notice it in-game? Like, is its tiny effect on Jax E / spell vamp really worth it?
Pretty sure Rylias slow was reduced on AOE damage spells when TLD was released. That's a pretty big one.