So let Amumu, Zyra or Rumble get farm?
Chugging creeps is obviously hard wired into him, and part of what makes him such a beastly player, but there's no reason to be taking farm when he's at full items and there are teammates that aren't.
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On January 07 2013 20:05 zulu_nation8 wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2013 19:58 DragoonTT wrote: On January 07 2013 19:24 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:11 arb wrote: On January 07 2013 19:10 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:06 TheYango wrote: On January 07 2013 18:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: You want champions who scale well to take farm. You also want people who carry to take farm. Lee scales well and Froggen carries, hence Froggen takes the farm. I see nothing wrong. The specific scenario in question was at a point when Froggen had 6 items, and the only use left for his gold was chugging pots or selling items to replace them. I don't know the game but it seems highly unlikely that he would just take farm for no reason that his AD could have gotten. I'd imagine the situation called for lanes to be pushed out ASAP and Froggen just happened to be there. not that was pretty much what was happening link to vod CLG.EU vs WE, IPL 5 WB Semis, Game 2 VOD link kog had 6 items before froggen did.. So let Amumu, Zyra or Rumble get farm? Chugging creeps is obviously hard wired into him, and part of what makes him such a beastly player, but there's no reason to be taking farm when he's at full items and there are teammates that aren't. | ||
imre
France9263 Posts
On January 07 2013 20:28 Amarok wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2013 20:05 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:58 DragoonTT wrote: On January 07 2013 19:24 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:11 arb wrote: On January 07 2013 19:10 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:06 TheYango wrote: On January 07 2013 18:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: You want champions who scale well to take farm. You also want people who carry to take farm. Lee scales well and Froggen carries, hence Froggen takes the farm. I see nothing wrong. The specific scenario in question was at a point when Froggen had 6 items, and the only use left for his gold was chugging pots or selling items to replace them. I don't know the game but it seems highly unlikely that he would just take farm for no reason that his AD could have gotten. I'd imagine the situation called for lanes to be pushed out ASAP and Froggen just happened to be there. not that was pretty much what was happening link to vod CLG.EU vs WE, IPL 5 WB Semis, Game 2 VOD link kog had 6 items before froggen did.. So let Amumu, Zyra or Rumble get farm? Chugging creeps is obviously hard wired into him, and part of what makes him such a beastly player, but there's no reason to be taking farm when he's at full items and there are teammates that aren't. pushing asap? | ||
Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On January 07 2013 20:34 sAsImre wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2013 20:28 Amarok wrote: On January 07 2013 20:05 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:58 DragoonTT wrote: On January 07 2013 19:24 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:11 arb wrote: On January 07 2013 19:10 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:06 TheYango wrote: On January 07 2013 18:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: You want champions who scale well to take farm. You also want people who carry to take farm. Lee scales well and Froggen carries, hence Froggen takes the farm. I see nothing wrong. The specific scenario in question was at a point when Froggen had 6 items, and the only use left for his gold was chugging pots or selling items to replace them. I don't know the game but it seems highly unlikely that he would just take farm for no reason that his AD could have gotten. I'd imagine the situation called for lanes to be pushed out ASAP and Froggen just happened to be there. not that was pretty much what was happening link to vod CLG.EU vs WE, IPL 5 WB Semis, Game 2 VOD link kog had 6 items before froggen did.. So let Amumu, Zyra or Rumble get farm? Chugging creeps is obviously hard wired into him, and part of what makes him such a beastly player, but there's no reason to be taking farm when he's at full items and there are teammates that aren't. pushing asap? Maybe. I'll be honest, I haven't rewatched the vod, I just remember thinking it would be better if someone else cleared the wave as he was fully farmed. | ||
DragoonTT
3398 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
LoL metagame is basically locked in the tanky top/bursty caster mid/jungler/support + ad, and this isn't changing any time soon. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On January 07 2013 23:21 zulu_nation8 wrote: what the fuck are you guys talking about, why would he give up farm ever if he didnt have 6 items? Because Lee Sin doesn't get as ridiculous on 6 items as Kog does? It's not like we're talking about giving up farm to turrets, we're talking about giving your farm to someone else on the team who the team has decided is a higher farm priority I guess one difference between a dota hard carry and a lol AD carry is that the LoL ADC can't really get SO farmed that he can 1v5 unless his team is so far ahead it's irrecoverable (because he can still get bursted down generally) | ||
zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On January 07 2013 23:53 Abenson wrote: In Dota 2 there are so many more ways to play the game. Trilane, 2 mid, no jungler, with jungler, etc. LoL metagame is basically locked in the tanky top/bursty caster mid/jungler/support + ad, and this isn't changing any time soon. season 3 is gonna surprise you verily! | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On January 08 2013 00:01 zulu_nation8 wrote: lee sin scales better than kog with bonus AD, froggen carries a lot harder than yellowpete, thus froggen gets the farm. Not sure what this communist bullshit comes from, you give farm to people who are stronger, not weaker. It's not communist bullshit. Obviously we just have different opinions of who on CLG.EU should have the position 1. Ultimately the point of this discussion is about understanding farm priority further, not about always putting your AD carry at farm position 1. While I disagree that Lee scales better with gold than Kog - that's not the point. | ||
Avs
Korea (North)857 Posts
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On January 08 2013 06:17 sylverfyre wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2013 00:01 zulu_nation8 wrote: lee sin scales better than kog with bonus AD, froggen carries a lot harder than yellowpete, thus froggen gets the farm. Not sure what this communist bullshit comes from, you give farm to people who are stronger, not weaker. It's not communist bullshit. Obviously we just have different opinions of who on CLG.EU should have the position 1. Ultimately the point of this discussion is about understanding farm priority further, not about always putting your AD carry at farm position 1. While I disagree that Lee scales better with gold than Kog - that's not the point. Thats not an opinion, that is mathematical, all of the scaling is up to look up, and kog with his long rage seige abilities, quick aspd, and stronger scaling than lee would rather have his 6 items than lee have 6 items. Idk where he came up with communist bullshit though, confused about that. | ||
Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
2. Relatively few games get to the point where the carry has maxed items plus rebuy so your carry is almost always in need of farm. 3. A fully farmed carry in Dota has a much bigger impact on the game than a fully farmed LoL carry. 4. Magic damage, support and defensive all fall off in the late game in Dota much more than in LoL. Meaning at late game it is more important for your support to have crowd control items (which arguably get stronger as the game goes on) than it is for your magic damage nuker to have more mana or a harder hitting ultimate in Dota. All of these points add up to the farm priority system having a bigger impact on a game of Dota than a game of LoL. And even then, the farm priority isn't the be all and end all of how to play a game of Dota. It is too simple of a model to describe which hero gets that creep kill resulting in it being rather inaccurate. Commentators who explain the model generally only do so for the purpose of people who are brand new to Dota understanding which heroes scale better with items. | ||
zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On January 08 2013 08:15 docvoc wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2013 06:17 sylverfyre wrote: On January 08 2013 00:01 zulu_nation8 wrote: lee sin scales better than kog with bonus AD, froggen carries a lot harder than yellowpete, thus froggen gets the farm. Not sure what this communist bullshit comes from, you give farm to people who are stronger, not weaker. It's not communist bullshit. Obviously we just have different opinions of who on CLG.EU should have the position 1. Ultimately the point of this discussion is about understanding farm priority further, not about always putting your AD carry at farm position 1. While I disagree that Lee scales better with gold than Kog - that's not the point. Thats not an opinion, that is mathematical, all of the scaling is up to look up, and kog with his long rage seige abilities, quick aspd, and stronger scaling than lee would rather have his 6 items than lee have 6 items. Idk where he came up with communist bullshit though, confused about that. in what way does he have stronger scaling than lee? Look up the math and show me. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
By building stats that multiply 5 sources of damage. (AD, AS, Crit, Critdamage, ArPen) and having one of the best autoattack steroids in the game, plus a second modest steroid (passive AS and armor/MR shred on his Q) | ||
zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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MrF
United States320 Posts
On January 06 2013 03:50 NEOtheONE wrote: Except there are several problems: 1) There is no way to enforce this as farm priority will fluctuate depending on team comp. 2) Solo queue is solo queue 3) In pubs everyone will try to instalock a priority 1 champion rather than simply calling top, mid, or ADC, so you just trade one form of stupidity for another. 4) It really isn't that obvious to many people, and with the general selfish mentality people will continue to remain oblivious. 5) What do you do when you have multiple carries? Say Jax top, Anivia or Karthus mid, Ezreal ADC, and Lee or Olaf jungle? I don't think you understand the concept here, it's not like this really would change anything, you say "3) In pubs everyone will try to instalock a priority 1 champion rather than simply calling top, mid, or ADC, so you just trade one form of stupidity for another." P1 champ is an ADC, ADCs already need more gold then other roles, what OP is suggesting is simply making people more aware of who goes next in the priority line, and how you can improve your chances of winning by getting those with higher priority farmed and fed. It is already standard to help your top priority champ get farmed, in fact there is usually one team member doing just that(support) so why shouldn't it be standard to further prioritize who you should try to help get farmed. Here is the thing, no one is saying you should completely change the meta or abandon your lane, all he is suggesting is that we should all be aware of and assist those champions who preform better given a lot of farm. TLDR, this is not a new idea, it is already taken into account by the better more mindful players, OP is just trying to make people more aware. | ||
MrF
United States320 Posts
On January 07 2013 20:41 Amarok wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2013 20:34 sAsImre wrote: On January 07 2013 20:28 Amarok wrote: On January 07 2013 20:05 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:58 DragoonTT wrote: On January 07 2013 19:24 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:11 arb wrote: On January 07 2013 19:10 zulu_nation8 wrote: On January 07 2013 19:06 TheYango wrote: On January 07 2013 18:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: You want champions who scale well to take farm. You also want people who carry to take farm. Lee scales well and Froggen carries, hence Froggen takes the farm. I see nothing wrong. The specific scenario in question was at a point when Froggen had 6 items, and the only use left for his gold was chugging pots or selling items to replace them. I don't know the game but it seems highly unlikely that he would just take farm for no reason that his AD could have gotten. I'd imagine the situation called for lanes to be pushed out ASAP and Froggen just happened to be there. not that was pretty much what was happening link to vod CLG.EU vs WE, IPL 5 WB Semis, Game 2 VOD link kog had 6 items before froggen did.. So let Amumu, Zyra or Rumble get farm? Chugging creeps is obviously hard wired into him, and part of what makes him such a beastly player, but there's no reason to be taking farm when he's at full items and there are teammates that aren't. pushing asap? Maybe. I'll be honest, I haven't rewatched the vod, I just remember thinking it would be better if someone else cleared the wave as he was fully farmed. Nah, Im sure you know better than Froggen. | ||
obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 08 2013 12:44 zulu_nation8 wrote: youre just listing off his strengths, i can do the same for lee sin, the point is it's not the case that kog always deserves farm over lee. In the game that was linked, lee had more kills than kog all game, kog had more farm than lee all game, kog was maxed out about 5-10min earlier than lee. Again, you always give farm to your strongest carry, unless you have a top nunu or something. Lee has one of the best AD scalings in the game. I used to think the same that bruisers scaled as well as AD's, but then I played an Aram where my team was winning all game. I was AD sivir. My opposing team had an AD sivir. My ally's fought hard for farm but the sivir on the enemy team got all the farm on her team. She went on to become unstoppable. The rest of her team didn't need damage because with multiplicative scaling, she gained more damage than the rest of my team gained from items combined. In my experience a farmed AD can win more games than a farmed bruiser but it obviously depends on skill. | ||
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